BRITAIN PREVAILS - Captain Britain & MI13 Appreciation PART II

[Willow616]

Is Tangerine currently active in any title?

Nah mate the only appearance of the actual 616 Tangerine was in the last issue of CB&MI13.

Hey I liked NEW EXCALIBUR and it used Black Knight brilliantly (he hasn't been used as well since, even including the excellent CAPTAIN BRITAIN AND MI:13 series). Admittedly that was Frank Tieri (who can do little wrong, IMHO) rather then Claremont.

Even still though, there were strengths to NEW EXCALIBUR IMO

Cheers.

James.

Sorry James bud but to me New Excalibur was possibly the worst comic I've ever read in 30-odd years of being a CB/Black Knight/Marvel fan, confused and badly executed. Admittedly some of that was editorial rather than the creators themselves but it (for me) almost destroyed my faith in the characters ever being used well again.

[Whitster]

And his Brit-speak was diabolical.

The worst example of this was when he turned Wisdom, who comes from and grew up in Essex, into a Cockney in New Excalibur. Seriously I thought we were two lines of dialogue away from " 'Ave a banana" sometimes.

[James Hunter]

Sorry James bud but to me New Excalibur was possibly the worst comic I've ever read in 30-odd years of being a CB/Black Knight/Marvel fan, confused and badly executed. Admittedly some of that was editorial rather than the creators themselves but it (for me) almost destroyed my faith in the characters ever being used well again.

I can unnderstand that from #14 on (the whole Nocturne stroke plot took over, and it wasn't brilliantly done) but I am surprised you didn't enjoy the first arc, just for seeing Cap in action again (personally, I thought the team was well put together)

If you "almost had your faith in the characters ever being used well again destroyed" then you must have read a different arc then me involving the Black Knight, I loved having Dane going back to Camelot then and thought it was the best Dane had been written in years.

That was Tieri, rather then Claremont but it was a superb arc, IMO.

To each his own though

Cheers.

James.

[Willow616]

I can unnderstand that from #14 on (the whole Nocturne stroke plot took over, and it wasn't brilliantly done) but I am surprised you didn't enjoy the first arc, just for seeing Cap in action again (personally, I thought the team was well put together)

If you "almost had your faith in the characters ever being used well again destroyed" then you must have read a different arc then me involving the Black Knight, I loved having Dane going back to Camelot then and thought it was the best Dane had been written in years.

That was Tieri, rather then Claremont but it was a superb arc, IMO.

To each his own though

Cheers.

James.

I don't know where to start James mate......the set up for the team was full of holes - ''Britain is defenceless because of M-Day'' when there were hundreds of superheroes active in Briatain who weren't mutants. The sudden mutant hatred from the Brit MU when they've never displayed anything like it before or caring a great deal about superheroes at all (Wisdom is a perfect example of not labeliing himself as 'mutant only').

Courtney Ross having being killed and replaced by Sat-Yr-9 who then attacked Excalibur suddenly appears in New Excalibur without any explanation and CB is wary for about five minutes and then just accepts it. CB isn't really fussed about the love of his life being missing past the first issue, and then proceeds to be the dullest superhero ever, he suggests that there maybe a Corps of Caps that seleceted the Sword of Might instead of the Amulet of Right and then acts shocked when someone says the same thing a few issues later. Brian showing suprise that there's another version of him from another dimension.

A line of mostly US heroes in what was meant to be Britain's premier team. The appalling 'Huggernaught'. M-Day happens and immediately another team of extra-dimensional X-Men is introduced. Wisdom being ignored and disrespected at the same time as he is running MI13 in his own series. Chamber turning into Decibel.

Granted Tieri did seem to want to improve the title but the whole Camelot storyline seemed to ignore what had gone before.

And that awful bloody Power Rangers uniform that CB wore....Phew.....my god I can rant...sorry dude it's a real bug bear of mine.

[highwayguy]

It's hell of a windy in Scotland today. It'll take a brave man to venture out in his kilt.

Nah mate the only appearance of the actual 616 Tangerine was in the last issue of CB&MI13.

Sorry, I forgot to reply to rogue_kiss' question. But yeah, we need more Tangerine.

I've just finished reading Incredible Hulk #409 guest-starring Motormouth and Killpower. Were there any other Marvel US comics that featured strong appearances from Marvel UK characters?

I heard that Wild Angels was published by Marvel Italia. Was it any good?

Don't forget to check out the Age of Marvels solicitations for December. Aelle3's Union Jack plot is coming to a close. There may be some changes to be made to the AoM titles so I may be asking for suggestions for my Captain Britain & MI13 and Union Jack titles.

[Aelle3]

It's hell of a windy in Scotland today. It'll take a brave man that venture out in his kilt.

Its been a crap week, but we did get called off work today. Every cloud.

[Willow616]

I've just finished reading Incredible Hulk #409 guest-starring Motormouth and Killpower. Were there any other Marvel US comics that featured strong appearances from Marvel UK characters?

I heard that Wild Angels was published by Marvel Italia. Was it any good?

Not really mate...Motormouth and Killpower were the only ones to really make the jump to the US besides some non-616 Marvel UK appearances in Alan Davis' Excalibur and a Motormouth and Death's Head cameo in Avengers Forever.......

I once had a chance to read Wild Angels.....looked good.....unfortunately I can't read Italian

[James Hunter]

I don't know where to start James mate......the set up for the team was full of holes - ''Britain is defenceless because of M-Day'' when there were hundreds of superheroes active in Briatain who weren't mutants. The sudden mutant hatred from the Brit MU when they've never displayed anything like it before or caring a great deal about superheroes at all (Wisdom is a perfect example of not labeliing himself as 'mutant only').

Courtney Ross having being killed and replaced by Sat-Yr-9 who then attacked Excalibur suddenly appears in New Excalibur without any explanation and CB is wary for about five minutes and then just accepts it. CB isn't really fussed about the love of his life being missing past the first issue, and then proceeds to be the dullest superhero ever, he suggests that there maybe a Corps of Caps that seleceted the Sword of Might instead of the Amulet of Right and then acts shocked when someone says the same thing a few issues later. Brian showing suprise that there's another version of him from another dimension.

A line of mostly US heroes in what was meant to be Britain's premier team. The appalling 'Huggernaught'. M-Day happens and immediately another team of extra-dimensional X-Men is introduced. Wisdom being ignored and disrespected at the same time as he is running MI13 in his own series. Chamber turning into Decibel.

Granted Tieri did seem to want to improve the title but the whole Camelot storyline seemed to ignore what had gone before.

And that awful bloody Power Rangers uniform that CB wore....Phew.....my god I can rant...sorry dude it's a real bug bear of mine.

Hey there's nothing wrong with a good rant and if you feel better for it then all is right with the world

I can agree that the idea of Britain being defenseless post-M-DAY was a little absurd, but to be fair Claremont never said it was defenseless and (briefly) mentioned MI: 5. I chose to ignore the loop hole because I liked the cast

Decibel had nothing to do with NEW EXCALIBUR though, that was all Grievoux (Claremont suggested Jono may be an Omega-Level mutant, due to his link to Apocalypse.

As for "Huggernaut"? I'm afraid I prefer him to the one-note, I hate my step brother will trash his school then go away for a few years Juggernaut.

Tieri's arc was the best of the title though, IMHO.

On a seperate subject though, and going back to Motormouth, can anyone see her in their copy of AVENGERS FOREVER?/ Apparantly she was in #12 but I can't see her

Cheers.

James.

[Loki]

On a seperate subject though, and going back to Motormouth, can anyone see her in their copy of AVENGERS FOREVER?/ Apparantly she was in #12 but I can't see her

Cheers.

James.

Page 4 (first half of the two page spread of fighting Avengers), start at the bottom of the page, move straight up from the first E in "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE" past Killpower being punched by Wonder Man, and there, sandwiched between Wonder Man and Thorion is Harley.

[Willow616]

Hey there's nothing wrong with a good rant and if you feel better for it then all is right with the world :

Y'know.....strangely...I do....hahahaha!

I can agree that the idea of Britain being defenseless post-M-DAY was a little absurd, but to be fair Claremont never said it was defenseless and (briefly) mentioned MI: 5. I chose to ignore the loop hole because I liked the cast

Fai enough dude, different strokes innit? In the end I'm grateful that you you picked up a CB and Black Knight comic....so whichever way that happens I should celebrate it!

Decibel had nothing to do with NEW EXCALIBUR though, that was all Grievoux (Claremont suggested Jono may be an Omega-Level mutant, due to his link to Apocalypse.

It was the beginning of Jon being a completely different character though....and the story seemingly sidelined the team.

As for "Huggernaut"? I'm afraid I prefer him to the one-note, I hate my step brother will trash his school then go away for a few years Juggernaut.

Marvel has had a very strange attitude to it's villains over the last few years, it seems that it doesn't matter how many you've killed, how many places you've robbed or places you laid waste to.......if you show a sad face and help out for an arc then you're forgiven. Juggernaught was career criminal, I can accept reforming but not being a cuddly mascot. At present Loki, Magneto and Doctor Doom.....Marvel's greatest villains are all 'heroes'.....and with the next event being Avengers vs X-Men (which I'm not averse to....but again? Heroes v Heroes?) Marvel needs to 'Bring On The Bad Guys' more than ever.

Tieri's arc was the best of the title though, IMHO.

Yep, I would totally agree. He did seem to want to do.....'something' with the team...........if left to Tieri New Excalibur could have been a different animal.

I'd probably feel a lot better about it all if just one good writer could tie it all together or explain the inconsistancies away.

On another note......Avengers v X-Men looks to involve Secret Avengers somewhere along the line..........will we get to see Brian ask Cyclops why he wasn't invited to Kurt's funeral?

[whozeduke]

On another note......Avengers v X-Men looks to involve Secret Avengers somewhere along the line..........will we get to see Brian ask Cyclops why he wasn't invited to Kurt's funeral?

That'd be a interesting conversation to have. We might see it. From what I understand, AvX will tie-in with every Avengers and X-Men book. So Secret Avengers will definitely be involved, but I'm not sure if they will have a large role in the main book. Its possible though. I think Hickman might potentially be interested in using Brian.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I don't know where to start James mate......the set up for the team was full of holes - ''Britain is defenceless because of M-Day'' when there were hundreds of superheroes active in Briatain who weren't mutants. The sudden mutant hatred from the Brit MU when they've never displayed anything like it before or caring a great deal about superheroes at all (Wisdom is a perfect example of not labeliing himself as 'mutant only').

Courtney Ross having being killed and replaced by Sat-Yr-9 who then attacked Excalibur suddenly appears in New Excalibur without any explanation and CB is wary for about five minutes and then just accepts it. CB isn't really fussed about the love of his life being missing past the first issue, and then proceeds to be the dullest superhero ever, he suggests that there maybe a Corps of Caps that seleceted the Sword of Might instead of the Amulet of Right and then acts shocked when someone says the same thing a few issues later. Brian showing suprise that there's another version of him from another dimension.

A line of mostly US heroes in what was meant to be Britain's premier team. The appalling 'Huggernaught'. M-Day happens and immediately another team of extra-dimensional X-Men is introduced. Wisdom being ignored and disrespected at the same time as he is running MI13 in his own series. Chamber turning into Decibel.

Granted Tieri did seem to want to improve the title but the whole Camelot storyline seemed to ignore what had gone before.

And that awful bloody Power Rangers uniform that CB wore....Phew.....my god I can rant...sorry dude it's a real bug bear of mine.

To be fair to Frank Tieri, I did once speak to the guy about New Excalibur through the medium of social media...

His long term want for New Excalibur was to make the team more British. Or at least more connected to Britain. Chamber was the first step on that. He wanted the Black Knight as a permanent addition. He also wanted Spitfire on board.

But it became clear that Claremont was coming back to the book, so it wasn't going to be possible in the end.

I don't think the book was 100% flawed. It certainly had it's issues, but there was a certain buzz of enthusiasm from CC when he started the book with Michael Ryan. Editorially things went wrong, and promises were retracted. But right up until CC left on health grounds it was still a decent book in my opinion. Afterwards it just went downhill fast. CC was clearly not in the same headspace at all (And I can sympathise greatly in that regard) and the book no longer felt like it had the direction it needed.

[Willow616]

I don't think the book was 100% flawed. It certainly had it's issues, but there was a certain buzz of enthusiasm from CC when he started the book with Michael Ryan. Editorially things went wrong, and promises were retracted. But right up until CC left on health grounds it was still a decent book in my opinion. Afterwards it just went downhill fast. CC was clearly not in the same headspace at all (And I can sympathise greatly in that regard) and the book no longer felt like it had the direction it needed.

To me CB was at his best pre-Excalibur. When the character moved to the US monthlies and the pen of Chris Claremont both Brian and Meggan suffered greatly, a dis-service that was repeated by successive writers. Only Alan Davis and Warren Ellis managed to bring them anywhere near back to their previous glory. When Ben Raab effectively retired Brian from active duty and Chuck Austen gave us Kelsey Leigh I was grateful.............at last I was hoping that Brian might be left be and Marvel could get on with ruining someone else's CB and not my childhood hero (Sure emough not long after - Bendis came onto the Avengers and had She-Hulk use the new CB as a punch-bag).

At this point my comic buying was virtually non-existant, I would visit my LCS to catch up on news but for the most part I was just trade waiting on the Ultimates and Astonishing X-Men......when New Excalibur was announced I was terrified....the set-up just didn't make sense. Britain wasn't defenceless.

In the aforementioned Astonishing X-Men, Wolverine referred to 'Excali-suck' and this was very much how I thought the MU considered the team by this point. It's name seemed synonymous with a dumping ground for X-Men no one knew what to do with....almost a holding pen until someone wanted them on a 'better' title.

When CB&MI13 came out it not only brought me back to monthly comics but re-affirmed to me that someone can give these characters a decent hearing.....when it finished (in my darkest 'missing CB' moments) I read NE in trade form out of sheer loyalty to my heroes. It made me miss CB&MI13 even more.

But now Remender's Uncanny X-Force and Secret Avengers beckon........I'm trusting that our Brian may again become the flawed hero I always respected

[Panic]

“I like putting characters in mismatch situations where the teammate they’re working with isn’t someone they naturally have a lot in common with,” Remender confesses. “In the Descendants story arc, the Torch and Captain Britain end up working together. At first they are bickering, debating the merits of science-based powers versus magic-based powers. But during the story they’ll discover that perhaps they’re not so dissimilar. They have more in common than they originally thought; they’ll either become great friends or bitter rivals by the end of issue #25.”

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/story/17833/s...#ixzz1g8CmmzlL

Interesting. Though I've always liked that Brian's powers come from a fusion of both magic and science, I can't deny that Cornell emphasised the magical aspect of CB over the scientific.

[Blind pugh]

Bertie Wooster was Union Jack?!

I'd buy that book, with the Destroyer as Jeeves.