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  1. #46
    Senior Member pmpknface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebel Bond View Post
    What about a neatly placed date-stamp on the cover that was a genuine part of the distribution process? I actually like silver age and bronze age books up to 1976 with those, gives some provenance to the book, especially when it's in a clear area and not obstrusive in any way.

    I've seen an Archie #1 with a handwritten signature on the cover (owner, not artist or writer etc) and that 'flaw' combined with other minor issues lowered it to a 7.0....which is FINE/VERY FINE...still kinda high in my opinion.
    That type of "flaw" isn't nearly as detrimental as other types of flaws. Just googled this:

    Using the standard grade as set up in the Overstreet comic book grading guide and the 10 point grading system it corresponds with, The Grades are as follows:

    MT 10.0 - ABSOLUTLY PERFECT - HAS NOT ONE SINGLE FLAW

    MT 9.9 - Only 1 very very subtle Bindery defect allowed

    NM/MT 9.8 - Only minor imperfections (such as an almost unnoticable interior page tear (under 1/32 of an inch) or a small inconspicuous date stamp (must be very well hidden almost unnoticable

    NM+ 9.6 - same as 9.8 but with small almost imperceptible indentations allowed and/or slight staple discoloration

    NM 9.4 - same as 9.6 but with an up to 1/16 inch bend without any color break (no white showing through the color) also ever-so-slight blunting of the corners and a few VERY SLIGHT stress lines

    NM- 9.2 same as above but page color may be off-white to cream in color and that 1 cover crease can be 1/16 to 1/8 inch with no color break allowed

    VF/NM 9.0 - 1/8 inch bend with no color break, very minor foxing allowed, small amount of cover wear, several date stamps and or small hidden initials allowed, slight staple tears allowed - Minor Accumulation of stress lines allowed and some very minor interior tears allowed

    VF+ 8.5 - 1/4 inch cover crease with no color break allowed, Minor spine split with some minor color break allowed, Some slightly more noticeable stress lines allowed and paper can be Cream to Tan but must remain supple

    VF 8.0 - Same as 8.5 but with some very very minor spine roll -- Must lay almost completely flat

    VF- 7.5 - same as 8.0 but cover can have light cover soiling and some interior pages can have corner slight tears - Also cover can have some corner wear.

    F/VF 7.0 - Moderate reduction of cover reflectivity - minor creases allowed, minor foxing, interior cover yellowing, date stamps - initials - and store stamps are allowed, Slight rust migration allowed, Blunted corners, minor margin tears on interior pages allowed -- More and deeper stress lines allowed

    FN+ 6.5 - up to 1/4 inch spine split or severe color break are allowed - Minor spine rolls allowed and cover can have minor discoloration, staining and/or foxing as well as minor to moderate cover creases

    FN 6.0 - same as 6.5 But with a loose but attached centerfold

    FN- 5.5 - Same as above but with some Marvel Chipping present as well as some bundling ridges and minor abraded edges - also light pencil marks possible

    VG/FN 5.0 - Low cover gloss possible minor to moderate dimples and creases Present, up to 1/2 inch spine split, Moderate Rolling of the spine - May also have the begining of an acid oder

    VG+ 4.5 - Cover wear is moderate to significant - cover may be loose... Cover may be faded staples discolored, moderate staple tears up to 1" spine split, moderate stress lines moderate interior tears minor oder minor repairs and up to a 1/4 inch triangle or 1/8 square missing (must not effect story) + Pages can be brown but not brittle

    VG 4.0 - same as above but with heavy spine wear and brown staining on cover - also some pen and/or pencil writting is common but should not be excessive

    VG- 3.5 - same as 4.0 but with frayed edges, Oxidation shadows on the cover and Larger cover creases - with many dimples and abraded corners

    G/VG 3.0 - Very low or no cover gloss, cover may be detached on one staple, 1 1/2 inch spine split, Interior tears and larger up to 1/2 inch chunks missing (must not effect story) - staples may have been replaced and book length creases may be present

    GD+ 2.5 - same as 3.0 but may have detached (but present) centerfold or cover and rounded corners

    GD 2.0 - up to 2" spine split, Significant cover ware heavily rolled spine, rust migration on to the book, Acid oder -- BUT MUST BE FULLY READABLE

    GD- 1.8 - Major writting, heavy staining and light water damage possible

    FR/GD 1.5 - Cover - Creases tears and folds, May be detached and with considerable wear and staining - up to 1/10 of the back cover may be missing - one missing staple is acceptable and massive rust migration

    FR 1.0 - Cut Coupons (may effect story slightly) Chunks of cover missing centerfold may be missing, pages may be brittle, many tears and folds and creases are very large and many - Cover may be crumpled

    PR 0.5 - Massive water damage, Major damage effecting most of the book (ie. Dog chewed it) Running ink and Coverless books belong here.
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  2. #47
    Junior Member Judomaster's Avatar
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    It's funny. I don't think I've ever purchased a FN 6.0 comic that is as bad as those flaws sound. That is my usual go to grade because it always looks like the F/VF 7.0 description.

    Also, why is there a 1.8!?

  3. #48
    Senior Member pmpknface's Avatar
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    Well, there's a 9.8 too! ;)

    Yeah, it's good to remember that this is a guide. It's kind of like, at this grade THIS flaw is allowed. It may not have ALL of those flaws but if it has THIS one it's automatically brought down to that level.

    That guide is listed in the Overstreet every year it's published.
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  4. #49
    Kicking the hornet's nest Jezebel Bond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmpknface View Post
    Well, there's a 9.8 too! ;)
    One of my friends has a true story about one of his grade books. He cherry-picked a copy of a book, read it, and so did 3 of his reader buddies. Guy #1 usually lies down on his bedroom floor with the book opened flat on some clean carpet.

    The book was submitted for grading after, and came back with a 9.8! Goes to show a book can be read carefully several times...

    I have one problem with a CGC 10.0 grade. The book still has to be inspected by what I believe to be 3 graders...that means a book has been carefully rifled through at least 3 times. So much for not being 'touched at all.'
    1 Kings 21:23

    And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.

  5. #50
    Think happy thoughts Parch's Avatar
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    Can't speak for autographed comics, but unverified signatures on sports memorabilia lowered the value because of the HUGE level of fraud that happened during the boom. There was a FBI report claiming that 80% of unverified signatures were faked. It got completely out of hand.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parch View Post
    Can't speak for autographed comics, but unverified signatures on sports memorabilia lowered the value because of the HUGE level of fraud that happened during the boom. There was a FBI report claiming that 80% of unverified signatures were faked. It got completely out of hand.
    I would be curious what percent of signatures that have been authenticated by reputable companies are also fakes.

  7. #52
    Kicking the hornet's nest Jezebel Bond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USArmyParatrooper View Post
    I would be curious what percent of signatures that have been authenticated by reputable companies are also fakes.
    I'd be really disappointed if either Dynamic Forces or WIZARD pulled that stunt on their special editions...
    1 Kings 21:23

    And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezebel Bond View Post
    I'd be really disappointed if either Dynamic Forces or WIZARD pulled that stunt on their special editions...
    I wouldn't say stunt, just that I would think that sort of authentication is susceptible to competent fakes.

  9. #54
    Think happy thoughts Parch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USArmyParatrooper View Post
    I would be curious what percent of signatures that have been authenticated by reputable companies are also fakes.
    It's a little different with sports memorabilia, especially sportscards. They're all licensed, so all it would take is one athlete to say "I didn't sign that" and that company would lose their valuable sportscard license.

    I was always confident that a verified autograph on a licensed sportscard was real. I was also confident that an unverified autograph was definately fake unless I got it myself.

    Bit different with comics. There are only so many creators while there are thousands of athletes. I still wouldn't pay extra for a comic just because it has a supposed "Kirby" signature scribbled on it.

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parch View Post
    It's a little different with sports memorabilia, especially sportscards. They're all licensed, so all it would take is one athlete to say "I didn't sign that" and that company would lose their valuable sportscard license.

    I was always confident that a verified autograph on a licensed sportscard was real. I was also confident that an unverified autograph was definately fake unless I got it myself.

    Bit different with comics. There are only so many creators while there are thousands of athletes. I still wouldn't pay extra for a comic just because it has a supposed "Kirby" signature scribbled on it.
    I'm not saying any of the authenticators would deliberately authenticate a fake signature. I'm just wondering if it's possible to fool them, even if only a small percent of the time.

    Out of curiosity why would you pay more for an athlete's signature but not a writer or artist?

  11. #56
    Think happy thoughts Parch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USArmyParatrooper View Post
    Out of curiosity why would you pay more for an athlete's signature but not a writer or artist?
    I've never paid for an autograph. I have gotten an autographed card in a purchased pack of cards and was confident that it was not fake. It's just too big of a risk for a sportscard company to be faking autographs.

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parch View Post
    I've never paid for an autograph. I have gotten an autographed card in a purchased pack of cards and was confident that it was not fake. It's just too big of a risk for a sportscard company to be faking autographs.
    Ah! Now I see the confusion. Sure, I would absolutely trust an autograph that came from a sealed package from a reputable card company. I was referring to third party signature authenticators.

  13. #58
    Kicking the hornet's nest Jezebel Bond's Avatar
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    So I got a late-night obscene phone-call, heavy breathing, the works...and it was really my dealer with this...



    Although regular, unslabbed FINE copies of Golden Age books exist, I managed to get a graded copy for LESS than unslabbed copies were going for...and I'm not going to say no to an affordable Golden Age copy in FINE grade, especially if it's been professionally graded. I feel a bit safer with older books when they're graded....

    I've always wanted to own an old Action Comics with the original Mast Head...

    PM for cost if you're interested in that part of it....
    Last edited by Jezebel Bond; 03-21-2012 at 06:17 PM.
    1 Kings 21:23

    And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.

  14. #59
    Senior Member pmpknface's Avatar
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    Killer pickup! I don't know that I've ever seen that one.
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  15. #60
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
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    But ... but ... but you can't reeeeeeaaaaaaadddddddd it!
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

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