NBA 2011-12 Season Thread

[JDogindy]

And, speaking of Knicks fans...

http://i.imgur.com/MwE4R.jpg

Knicks refuse to keep Jeremy Lin, so Knicks fans blame Jeremy Lin. I only have the link up because of all the language and obscenities.

Still, in spite of all this, I know that Mike & Mike in the Morning will still mention them instead of the Pacers when it comes to top teams in the East that aren't the Miami Heat.

[BYC]

And, speaking of Knicks fans...

http://i.imgur.com/MwE4R.jpg

Knicks refuse to keep Jeremy Lin, so Knicks fans blame Jeremy Lin. I only have the link up because of all the language and obscenities.

Still, in spite of all this, I know that Mike & Mike in the Morning will still mention them instead of the Pacers when it comes to top teams in the East that aren't the Miami Heat.

At least the MSG stock didn't drop further.

Oh wait, it dropped further. It's dropped $2 in 4 days.

[kalorama]

If finances matter, then why are you pretending Lin should be judged solely on his on court play, instead of on his overall impact on the franchise?

I'm not pretending any such thing. That's just your straw man version of what I said. I've already said, clearly, more than once, that a player's impact on winning is the primary/most important factor, not the only one. It's the first test he has to pass before he gets to take the others. And given the small sample size of his NBA career, I don't thing Lin has passed it yet.

Lin's a role player, but he's not exactly a normal role player, is he?

Depends on your definition of "normal."

Role players don't get this much press attention. Role players don't bring you a captive audience of a billion or so people. Role players won't make you kajillions in marketing revenue. Ignoring Lin's marketing value, as you (and others) have been doing is absolutely ridiculous.

No one is "ignoring" Lin's marketing potential. We're just (A) not overvaluing it as wildly as you are and (B) not assuming that it's guaranteed to persist, especially if his on-court production/value/profile falls (which is a very real possibility). If his play falls off precipitously outside of D'Antoni's freewheeling system . . . what then? Do they keep giving him minutes he hasn't earned to keep up his marketing profile in order to get financial return on their investment? (And how do you imagine that would play in the locker room?) Because if he does revert to being just a "normal" role player on the court, how many "kajillions in marketing revenue" will he be worth then? Because I don't seem to recall Wang Zhi-Zhi or Yi Jianlian making the cash registers ring during their time in the NBA.

Yeah, I'm not actually arguing for the Knicks here. Especially since the issue has essentially been settled. I do think they should've matched the offer, and I think they would've made money on the deal, even overpaying Lin and eating the luxury tax, for what it's worth.

My point is that, overall, Lin actually is worth that much money.

Yeah. And my point is that that's just not true, no matter which standard you use.

[kalorama]

There's 2 franchises in the NBA that does not worry or care about their budget. LA Lakers, and NY Knicks.

It's not our money, who cares. It's not the NFL, there's no hard cap, who cares. There is little reason not to take a chance on Lin, especially when "money" is the reason.

Well, that's an easy thing to say when, as you note, it's not your money.

There's no reason he doesn't deserve the money. He's a 3rd year player that was drafted in the 2nd round. 2nd round players occasionally make some huge impact. Gilbert Arenas signed for an almost max contract (I agreed with it at the time, even if he was coming off of a major knee surgery).

Lin wasn't a 2nd round pick; he went undrafted coming out of Harvard and he's only been in the NBA 2 years. And when Arenas signed that $100 mill contract he had just finished his 7th season in the NBA and in 6 of those 7 he'd averaged between 18 and 30 ppgs. He was also coming off 3 consecutive All-Star appearances. Arenas got paid, in large part, for what he'd already accomplished/proven. Lin hasn't really accomplished/proven anything other than that his face sells T-shirts and magazine covers. As an actual basketball player he's far from a proven commodity. He's played 64 games in two seasons. That's not enough of a track record to get franchise player money.

If a team wants to sign him to a major deal, that's fine.

And, conversely, if a team doesn't want to sign a player to a major deal, that's fine to. Which makes all the mudslinging at the Knicks for not wanting to grossly overpay for Jeremy Lin much ado about nothing.

[Dreadstar]

There's 2 franchises in the NBA that does not worry or care about their budget. LA Lakers, and NY Knicks.

Far as I'm concerned, if a team at the cap thinks to sign a big-time all-star with the idea "Meh, we'll just pay the luxury tax, we can afford it" then that's EXACTLY the kind of thing that Stern should step in and stop.

The "luxury tax" isn't there for a secondary cap, it's there to even things out competition-wise.

[kalorama]

As long as the rules allow teams to exceed the tax (and as long as the owners are willing to pay the penalty), then there's nothing Stern can do about it. They're operating within the rules laid out in the CBA.

[Dreadstar]

As long as the rules allow teams to exceed the tax (and as long as the owners are willing to pay the penalty), then there's nothing Stern can do about it. They're operating within the rules laid out in the CBA.

Actually, there is. Stern can block trades in the interest of competition. He pretty much proved that last off-season, didn't he?

Nonetheless, I'm not saying he will.

I'm saying this is exactly the kind of thing he should block.

My own personal opinion, thankyouverymuch.

[kalorama]

Actually, there is. Stern can block trades in the interest of competition. He pretty much proved that last off-season, didn't he?

Not really. As commissioner, Stern can block trades if they violate the governing rules laid down in the CBA. Going above the luxury tax is not against the rules. In the case of the Lakers/Hornets deal, since the Hornets were, at the time, owned by the NBA, Stern had decision making authority over all of the team's deals. His ostensible reason for blocking the trade was because it wasn't in the best interests of the Hornets. Now, is it likely that overall league interests played into his decision? Sure. But it was only because he was in the unique situation of having specific control of the individual team's operations that he was able to step in. Outside of that situation he can't just unilaterally nix deals that don't feel right to him. He has to have a defensible, rules-based reason.

Nonetheless, I'm not saying he will.

I'm saying this is exactly the kind of thing he should block.

And I'm saying that, under normal operating circumstances, he can't.

My own personal opinion, thankyouverymuch.

Problem is that your opinion in this case is based on something that's not actually true. You're welcome.

[RolandJP]

Im happy for Jeremy Lin. They will absolutely love him in Houston.


Too bad Yao Ming got hurt..a title wouldnt have been out of the question.

[Tadhg]

Im happy for Jeremy Lin. They will absolutely love him in Houston.


Too bad Yao Ming got hurt..a title wouldnt have been out of the question.

It'd still have been out of the question. By quite a bit.

[Dreadstar]

Not really. As commissioner, Stern can block trades if they violate the governing rules laid down in the CBA. Going above the luxury tax is not against the rules. In the case of the Lakers/Hornets deal, since the Hornets were, at the time, owned by the NBA, Stern had decision making authority over all of the team's deals. His ostensible reason for blocking the trade was because it wasn't in the best interests of the Hornets. Now, is it likely that overall league interests played into his decision? Sure. But it was only because he was in the unique situation of having specific control of the individual team's operations that he was able to step in. Outside of that situation he can't just unilaterally nix deals that don't feel right to him. He has to have a defensible, rules-based reason.

Enh, you're probably right. It doesn't make it any less a delicious fantasy. Anything to screw the Lakers.

[Kasper Cole]

There's 2 franchises in the NBA that does not worry or care about their budget. LA Lakers, and NY Knicks.

This isn't even remotely true.

The Lakers are VERY concerned about the money they're spending. They've been trying get under the cap for the past few seasons. The Lamar Odom & Derek Fisher trades were specifically done as salary dumps. The nixed CP3 deal also would have shed a ton of cap space for the Lakers.

[BYC]

This isn't even remotely true.

The Lakers are VERY concerned about the money they're spending. They've been trying get under the cap for the past few seasons. The Lamar Odom & Derek Fisher trades were specifically done as salary dumps. The nixed CP3 deal also would have shed a ton of cap space for the Lakers.

That's absolutely true. They may not choose to pay the luxury tax for aging or bad players, but they'll definitely go over for good players. Jerry Buss didn't want to overpaid when he didn't need to, but he was more than willing to do it when it was good for the franchise. Plus the Lakers actually do manage their team. Ignoring the fact I am a Lakers fan, they spend their money well generally speaking. They usually spend money to keep their core players together, splurging occasionally to land a piece they need or think they need. The Lakers care, but they don't worry about it.

Knicks are much more free with the money. I don't necessarily care, but I just think that money can be spent towards good players, instead of bad players. Once in a while, teams have to have overpay to get a player, but Knicks were doing it all the time. The Knicks don't even care about money. Until now, it seems. I'm more okay with this if I actually believe they'll stick to it, but I doubt they will. I tend to believe that Isiah will worm his way back in at some point as well.

[skyvolt2000]

OJ Mayo goes to the Mavericks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...thing-to-prove

Mayo, who signed his two-year contract with the Mavericks on Thursday, didn’t develop into the franchise cornerstone for the Memphis Grizzlies many people expected him to be after he was the third overall pick in the 2008 draft and was the runner-up to Chicago’s Derrick Rose in Rookie of the Year voting. His statistics dropped significantly the last two seasons, when he transitioned into a sixth-man role for the Grizzlies.

Mayo, who confirmed that his contract includes a player option for the second year, looks forward to a fresh start with a remodeled team that he believes can contend for a title this season.

[Aubergine~!]

and if he tanks it this year, the Rockets look silly for overpaying him...I think he's good, I don't think he's worth a three year deal

I've never denied that there was a lot of risk involved, but end of the day, the odds are still hugely in favor of the Rockets profiting from this overall.

And Lin who is probably more popular than Howard is right about now(and if Lin IS a bust he has no hope of even making the playoff, IMO).

Everyone's more popular than Howard is right now.

At least the MSG stock didn't drop further.

Oh wait, it dropped further. It's dropped $2 in 4 days.

And at around 75 million shares outstanding, that's a loss of what, $150M? But hey, yeah, $15M was waaaaay too much.