NBA 2011-12 Season Thread

[Mic Murphy]

I would be fine with performances similar to Game 6 and 7 of the ECF....I want to see him utterly dominate games

Which LeBron James has done in the playoffs in the past (see Game 5, 2007 East Finals, for example). So not only are you coming up with irrational expectations, you want them done routinely as if any player can do it to that level.

[Vibranium]

Which LeBron James has done in the playoffs in the past (see Game 5, 2007 East Finals, for example). So not only are you coming up with irrational expectations, you want them done routinely as if any player can do it to that level.

did I say routinely, no I did not

I would like to see one or two performances like that in these Finals, and see if that results in a title win

I personally am cheering for OKC as I think they have a bit of a deeper bench and fresher legs

[Mic Murphy]

did I say routinely, no I did not

I would like to see one or two performances like that in these Finals, and see if that results in a title win

Most players do not put up those kind of performances to that level in the Finals. If LeBron James doesn't have one of those seminal games -- just his typical 30-10-6 games (which some people act like anyone can put up those numbers on a regular basis, mostly because of irrational standards placed on LeBron) -- and Miami wins a title, it would be no less deserving.

[Hiromi]

Which, as an aside, would make him the easy pick for series mvp on its own.

[Vibranium]

well it is a shortened season, so for me, as a sports fan, whoever wins is a paper champion...and I maintain that for any sport that has had a shortened season due to work stoppages

[The Once And Forever]

well it is a shortened season, so for me, as a sports fan, whoever wins is a paper champion...and I maintain that for any sport that has had a shortened season due to work stoppages

...Then why even root for a team, if you aren't going to count the title?

As an aside to the rest of you, add "Must become the rep for the NBAPA and salvage any work issues immediately." to the list of LeBron's Labors.

[Mic Murphy]

well it is a shortened season, so for me, as a sports fan, whoever wins is a paper champion...and I maintain that for any sport that has had a shortened season due to work stoppages

The NBA played 80 percent of its typical schedule, but I'm not seeing how that has any relevance to LeBron James. Once again, the problem isn't LeBron but you making irrational expectations for one player and coming up with anything on which to blame him.

[Vibranium]

I actually don't blame him for the lockout...I blame David Stern AND the players....so pretty much everyone on that deal

[Aubergine~!]

To me this is what qualifies as overrating his importance. To me a franchise player is one whose presence in the role of the A-1 go-to guy can turn a team into a contender. Bosh's stint as a franchise player in Toronto didn't pan out so well. He's a excellent player, but I put him squarely in the tier of pseudo-superstars with guys like Amare, Anthony, Gay, Johnson, et al. Guys who can average great numbers and make multiple all-star teams, but don't really carry their teams to the next level in the primary role.

That's fair enough, though personally I think it's too high a bar, as given how stacked with great players certain teams are expecting one player alone to make a team a contender is unrealistic. Going by that criteria, and assuming no other superstars on the team, the only players I'd actually call franchise players are Lebron and Dwight.

IMO, a franchise player is a player good enough that, given league average teammates and assuming a healthy season, he can take his team to the playoffs. Bosh was good enough to do so in Toronto, so IMO that made him good enough to build a franchise around. IMO, that's what a franchise player is, though really there isn't a hard definition of the term I'm aware of.

[jesse_custer]

well it is a shortened season, so for me, as a sports fan, whoever wins is a paper champion...and I maintain that for any sport that has had a shortened season due to work stoppages

Bill Simmons did a great article about championships with asterisks recently, but I'm going to go against the grain and say that the asterisk next to this season is a GOOD thing. Yes, the season was shortened, but it was an absolutely brutal schedule for everyone, with players dropping left and right with injuries. I have a lot of respect for the Heat and Thunder making it through this fucked up season. In a way, winning this championship is pretty damn impressive.

[Vibranium]

Bill Simmons did a great article about championships with asterisks recently, but I'm going to go against the grain and say that the asterisk next to this season is a GOOD thing. Yes, the season was shortened, but it was an absolutely brutal schedule for everyone, with players dropping left and right with injuries. I have a lot of respect for the Heat and Thunder making it through this fucked up season. In a way, winning this championship is pretty damn impressive.

I forget who it was, but it was on ESPN radio and someone suggested starting the NBA season on Christmas Day and shortening the NBA season from 82 games to about 76 games...seemed like a pretty solid idea

[BYC]

I forget who it was, but it was on ESPN radio and someone suggested starting the NBA season on Christmas Day and shortening the NBA season from 82 games to about 76 games...seemed like a pretty solid idea

It'll never happen of course, but a shortened regular season would benefit NBA, MLB, and NHL especially (hot goalie at the right time, like LA). NFL is about perfect. The only other good thing about the shortened season this year is that we learned that sports are very draining, even with chartered flights. So playing only 2-3 games a week actually isn't too few. It's just about right.

Ideally for me, NBA, MLB, and NHL players should get a minor pay cut. NFL deserves a pay raise (especially now that we know about concussions).

[kalorama]

That's fair enough, though personally I think it's too high a bar, as given how stacked with great players certain teams are expecting one player alone to make a team a contender is unrealistic. Going by that criteria, and assuming no other superstars on the team, the only players I'd actually call franchise players are Lebron and Dwight.

Well, I never said anything about "no other superstars" on the team, so you're making an assumption that wasn't part of my reasoning and isn't really germane to my point. I said that the player in question has to fill the role as the A-1, go-to guy. That can be true regardless of whether there's another "superstar" on the roster (and I won't even get into how watered down the term superstar has become). Right now there's no question that Lebron is the Heat's franchise player, despite the presence of Wade and Bosh. Kobe is the Laker's franchise player, despite the presence of Gasol. During his days in LA, Shaq was the Lakers franchise player, despite the presence of Kobe. But even going by your arbitrary "no other superstar" rule, there's still Dirk, who took his team to two NBA finals and won a title without anyone even close to a superstar anywhere on the roster. And Kevin Durant certainly looks like he's headed into similar territory (I would seriously question anyone who calls Westbrook a superstar at this point). And while I know you were trying to make a dismissive point by claiming Lebron and Howard were the only real franchise players by my standard, you were actually making my underlying point for me: in the modern NBA, true franchise players are an extremely rare breed.

IMO, a franchise player is a player good enough that, given league average teammates and assuming a healthy season, he can take his team to the playoffs. Bosh was good enough to do so in Toronto, so IMO that made him good enough to build a franchise around. IMO, that's what a franchise player is, though really there isn't a hard definition of the term I'm aware of.

To me, that's a really low bar (and I'm pretty confident that most NBA execs, coaches, and analysts would come down closer to my side). But that being said . . . in Bosh's 8 years in Toronto, the Raptors only made it to the playoffs twice and never got out of the first round, even though in one of those years they finished the season at the top of their division and had the higher seed and home court going into the playoffs. So even by your lower standard, Bosh's track record as a franchise player is still pretty weak.

[BYC]

I saw Bosh play a lot, and I remember thinking "this guy is pretty damn good, definitely All-Star, maybe Hall of Fame if he got better". He was the modern PF; face up, good jumper, good range, can drive from high post and/or just inside the 3 point line, can post occasionally, plays a bit soft, good speed and feet movement, good laterally, but was a match-up nightmare unless your PF is also that type of player.

It would have been interesting to see if he could ever develop into a great player.

[kalorama]

He had 8 years as The Man in Toronto to develop into a great player and never really did. And that's not a knock; Bosh is a high-caliber offensive player, a legit All-Star, but he's not a guy you build a team around. He is what is is, and he's perfectly suited for the role he plays in Miami. I still believe that if the Heat fall short of the title again and decide to break up the big 3, Bosh is more likely to stay than Wade.