NBA 2011-12 Season Thread

[FirestormTheNuclearMan]

Congrats to any 76ers fans here. No excueses the 76ers in a extremely close game were the better team.

Right now the Nuggets are taking advantage in game 6 demolishing the Lakers. I'll be surprised if the Lakers can get the lead down to 13 or less points.

[Aubergine~!]

That's a pretty tall order, given how poorly they mesh and the fact that this deep into their careers, getting any of them to significantly change their ways is going to be tough. It's not like with Garnett, Allen, and Pierce, where all they really had to sacrifice were minutes and shots.

Oh yeah, I never said it'd be easy. It certainly won't, but they have to try, and blow up the thing if and only if they can't figure a system out.

The fundamental nature of Stoudemire, Anthony, and Chandler's games just don't fit well together.

Chandler? I know his and Stoudemire's games overlap a bit on offense, but I reckon the two aren't too bad together, and IIRC they were decent together with Lin. Main issue really is Anthony, Stat and Lin playing together, which I'm not sure is doable, but which is what they need to figure out.

At this point I'd seriously think of playing Lin and Stoudemire on the first unit, with Anthony coming off the bench to score craploads. Chandler and Fields work with both units, and just have someone like Bibby / whoever they can draft at PG to feed Melo the ball.

I never said Amare was a HoFer. But since you brought it up, based on his career to date, neither is Carmelo Anthony. Until he proves otherwise, Melo is basically Vince Carter 2.0, an extremely talented one-on-one offensive player who does little to make the guys around him better and whose impact on his team's ability to win always fall short of his impact on the stat sheet.

Heh, remember when people seriously thought there was going to be a Bron-Melo rivalry?

[Libaax]

No one said anything about winning a championship. But carrying a team to the playoffs (which is what you said) is not the same thing as a shooter getting hot in a couple of playoff games. Ray Allen is certainly capable of the latter, but none of those teams he played on got to the playoffs solely, or even primarily, because of his efforts. He was part of a collection of talent, including other all-star caliber players. The idea that he ever did anything single-handedly is just not true. None of those teams would have gotten anywhere near the playoffs if he hadn't had other quality guys around him.

EDIT: And the Sonics ended up losing that playoff series against the Spurs, which further speaks to my point.

Of course they lost to Spurs with more than one great player in Duncan,Ginobli etc and better teams often wins no matter how great the one big star is one the weak side. Look Bryant scoring 35-40 points in the last two games and being beaten by team without any big scorer,big star,great defender.

I said he won games for a weak team and not that he beat the dynasty of Spurs in early 2000s on his own. Dirk didnt carry Dallas on his own last year. He played same level this year and last. Losing quality players,role players cost Dallas.

My point was that he wasnt some decent player, second string in Sonics, the 10 years he played before Celtics. Like Garnett being in team that often missed playoffs.

[jesse_custer]

Garnett was amazing last night. He dominated on both ends of the floor in a really tough game.

Also, the Atlanta Hawks should be called the Atlanta Cockroaches. They're not particularly good at anything, but they can be hard to kill.

[BYC]

I still think NYC trading for Carmelo was the right move. NYC needs a big name, and Carmelo is a big name. I know getting players to play the way a coach wants is almost impossible sometimes, but that's when the owner and GM needs to step in and give support to the coach. I think management just needs to play hardball sometimes and bench the star player if he's hurting the team. Easier to say and harder to do, and I understand. But Carmelo is such a great scorer that can still improve his offense in different ways like be a better spot up shooter, run people off of screens better, develop a stronger post game.

I think the Knicks need to run the pick and pop/roll with Carmelo/Amare and Lin to fully get their offensive talent to use. Carmelo needs to be a better spot up shooter so when the pick n roll goes outside he can just shoot it. Iso Amare at the high post with Camelo at the 3 point line on the other side of where the post is, and Lin/random shooter at the baseline, Tyson at low post. Iso Carmelo with everybody on the other side except one shooter at baseline. They should be crashing the boards with all of their size. They should have an advantage at that, plus the Garden will go nuts for them when they hustle for offensive rebounds. I think they should definitely explore cutting both of their minutes a bit so Amare and Carmelo can iso more easily without the other getting lost. I don't think Amare is done, but once he's healthy and still playing like shit, then the Knicks might have to consider limiting his minutes.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Garnett was amazing last night. He dominated on both ends of the floor in a really tough game.

Also, the Atlanta Hawks should be called the Atlanta Cockroaches. They're not particularly good at anything, but they can be hard to kill.

that's my view of Atlanta, but to be fair they fought hard though....

[Vic Vega]

There's no question that Carmelo did bring the Knicks down. They were playing well last season before the trade, so well that people were talking about Stoudemire as a dark horse MVP candidate. After the trade their chemistry fell apart and has never recovered. You can deride Amare all you like, but they were a better team with him as the lead player before Anthony than they have been since Anthony got there. A title contending team? No. But they were better than the mess they've had since Anthony big footed his way into town

That Knicks team second best player was Galniari. Thier starting center was Mosgov. They weren't beating anybody in the playoffs with that lot.

Injuries screwed them over this year.

When you lose your only real P.G. and your best perimiter defender in Shumpert, you are @##$%ed.

Hell, if the Knicks had given Dantoni the boot earlier this season, they are probably a 6-seed, don't draw the Heat and probably make it to the second round of the playoffs.

[Cavemold]

I will pretend last night don't happen pau.....

[Tuan]

Man, talk about getting your ass wooped. Lol

Denver was on a mission early. Talk about a hot start.

[Tuan]

Double post!

[kalorama]

That Knicks team second best player was Galniari. Thier starting center was Mosgov. They weren't beating anybody in the playoffs with that lot.

The Nuggets second best player is Gallinari and their starting C is Mozgov they're one game away from beating the Lakers. And who, exactly did the Knicks beat in the playoffs with Anthony? In his entire NBA career, Anthony's gotten out of the first round once. Not exactly the profile of a franchise changing talent, is it? Before Anthony they had a team with developing young talent that was playing well, had good chemistry, and headed in the right direction. They weren't going to make an immediate impact but there was potential for future payoff. Now they don't have either of those things. They're not going to win now, and because they gave away all their young talent and have so much money tied up in 9+ year vets with no cap space and no lottery picks, their potential for internal improvement is pretty much nonexistent.

Injuries screwed them over this year.

When you lose your only real P.G. and your best perimiter defender in Shumpert, you are @##$%ed.

They were floundering well before the injuries hit. The only reason Lin even got into the rotation was because they were circling the drain, and D'Antoni was desperate. THe very fact that Lin became the face of the franchise speaks to how bad things were for them.

Hell, if the Knicks had given Dantoni the boot earlier this season, they are probably a 6-seed, don't draw the Heat and probably make it to the second round of the playoffs.

I doubt that getting the 6th seed and making it to the 2nd round were their ultimate goals when they traded half their team to get Anthony.

[kalorama]

Of course they lost to Spurs with more than one great player in Duncan,Ginobli etc and better teams often wins no matter how great the one big star is one the weak side. Look Bryant scoring 35-40 points in the last two games and being beaten by team without any big scorer,big star,great defender.

Exactly my point. It's not about one game or even one series. The fact that Allen had some big games in a playoff series in a losing effort doesn't make him a franchise player, anymore than it takes away from the fact that Kobe is.

I said he won games for a weak team and not that he beat the dynasty of Spurs in early 2000s on his own. Dirk didnt carry Dallas on his own last year. He played same level this year and last. Losing quality players,role players cost Dallas.

No, what you originally said was that he single-handheldly carried teams to the playoffs before going to Boston, which is what I was responding to. And that's simply not true.

My point was that he wasnt some decent player, second string in Sonics, the 10 years he played before Celtics. Like Garnett being in team that often missed playoffs.

No one said he was a "second string player" so I have no idea how that's relevant. But before becoming to Boston he was not a guy who's very presence changed a team's fortunes. He was a solid, All-Star caliber player. But so is Joe Johnson, for all that's worth. And the same applies to Anthony, which takes us back to the actual point. Putting up big numbers for a decade on teams that flame out in the playoffs year after year while failing to elevate them to anything more is a legit reason to cast a questionable eye towards a player's "elite" status. It happened to Carter and McGrady and right now Anthony looks to be squarely in that same category.

[Cavemold]

Man, talk about getting your ass wooped. Lol

Denver was on a mission early. Talk about a hot start.

Thats the worst game I've seen in years

[kalorama]

Oh yeah, I never said it'd be easy. It certainly won't, but they have to try, and blow up the thing if and only if they can't figure a system out.

I really don't see blowing it up as a viable option because (A) they aren't going to get value for anyone in trade and (B) they spent the batter part of the past 5+ years building towards this. This is their end game. If they blow it up, it's going to be another 5-10 years before they even get this close.

Chandler? I know his and Stoudemire's games overlap a bit on offense, but I reckon the two aren't too bad together, and IIRC they were decent together with Lin. Main issue really is Anthony, Stat and Lin playing together, which I'm not sure is doable, but which is what they need to figure out.

Chandler and Stoudemire aren't as big a problem as Stoudemire and Anthony, but it is a problem. Chandler basically has no offensive game beside offensive putbacks and spoonfed dunks. Which means that on offense, teams have no incentive to guard him when he doesn't have the ball, which makes it a lot easier to double team Amare. Teams can drop off Chandler to double Amare and--because they both inhabit pretty much the same space on the floor--can easily recover to Chandler if he somehow ends up with the ball. Because neither of them is a true low-post player and neither of them is a range shooter, there's crowding on the floor when they're out there together.

At this point I'd seriously think of playing Lin and Stoudemire on the first unit, with Anthony coming off the bench to score craploads. Chandler and Fields work with both units, and just have someone like Bibby / whoever they can draft at PG to feed Melo the ball.

I agree that breaking up Amare and Melo is probably the best solution, but I can't see Anthony's ego accepting a bench role, even a little.

[Cavemold]

I hope pau is not considered a FHOF anymore...