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  1. #1
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    Default CBR: Shelf Life - Nov 17, 2011

    In light of Frank Miller's comments on Occupy Wall Street, Ron Marz examines political opinions and the slippery slope of fans not being able to separate a work from the person making it.


    Full article here.

  2. #2
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    I feel much the same way. I read Miller's rant, though, "Hmm, well, that's annoying."
    Then I saw the comments section. And it seemed to be "everyone but the group I belong to are assholes!"
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    Wait, let me get this straight:

    You support Frank Miller's right to free speech....but not other people's right to comment on it? Really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by destronomics View Post
    Wait, let me get this straight:

    You support Frank Miller's right to free speech....but not other people's right to comment on it? Really?
    That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that if you're going to reply to something like what Frank Miller said do so intelligently and not with the typical "you're a facist" or "stupid hippie" type diatribes that have been posted.

    Some people need to read Russ Lieber's "Raise Your Voice By Raising Your Hand."

  5. #5
    Senior Member Steve Broome's Avatar
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    I'm a conservative and find most of the commentary online by comic fans and creators ABOUT conservatives to be just as ridiculous as Frank Miller's were(I know a lot of folks involved in the Oakland segment of this and he's way off base). I also find much of the heavy-handed liberal work by those creators to be ridiculous, but it's just not a big deal. I often find it's liberals that have the hard time allowing someone to disagree with them, all the more hilarious since they paint themselves as being so open-minded.

    BTW all the article's examples (I enjoyed the piece btw) seemed to just find ways to take pot shots at conservatives. If you add up how often those of who aren't left-leaning have to listen to stuff like this, Miller's rant should barely even register as an issue.
    Last edited by Steve Broome; 11-17-2011 at 03:46 PM.

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    New Member uthor's Avatar
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    A well measured and reasonable response. What the fuck are you doing on the internet? Get out!

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    "I find the whole thing to be not only depressing, but a perfect microcosm of what's wrong with our national discourse: ignoring facts in favor of partisan talking points, and a complete lack of empathy for any other viewpoint. "

    this, x100.

    You're either a "socialist dirty hippie liberal" or a "heartless Republican robot."

    yet, we're all reasonable people outside of politics for the most part... aren't we? But political conversations turn us into judgmental @$$holes.
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    Junior Member Romus's Avatar
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    Frank Millar rules. You can't dismiss everything he says, there is an element he is calling out to attention.

    And I never see the other side, he is speaking against, hesitating to be just as rude or worse ... even resorting to violence.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by TMatthy83 View Post
    That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that if you're going to reply to something like what Frank Miller said do so intelligently and not with the typical "you're a facist" or "stupid hippie" type diatribes that have been posted.

    Some people need to read Russ Lieber's "Raise Your Voice By Raising Your Hand."
    ...but why? Frank Miller's diatribe was not intelligent or well reasoned either, so what, exactly is your point?

    And again: it's free speech. It's okay for Frank Miller to resort to name calling and curse words, but it's the responsibility of everyone else to elevate the conversation? Again, why? How do you believe to enforce this rule?

    It's free speech: someone, somewhere is going to say something in a way you don't like. Crazy!

  10. #10
    Senior Member The_Ronin's Avatar
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    Frank has the write to say any thing he wants. Much like I have the right to mock it!

  11. #11
    Junior Member Romus's Avatar
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    Frank's rant reminds me of this awesome scene in Scent of a Woman

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--IcPqrLDBA

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    I don't give a fuck what Frank Miller thinks about politics. I havent even read his blog post. All I care about are his comics(which frankly, aren't very good either, and haven't been in about a decade).

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    Haven't read Miller's response and I won't, giving what I've read about his opinion that he's certainly entitled to, but as far as a creator politically soapboxing their work, I'm all for it. Being neither liberal or conservative (there is a well-defined middle ground) or Democrat or Republican, I welcome any one willing enough to buck PC sentiment in their work and call it as they see it, whether it's creator owned work or through a company-owned character. I may secretly pray to Existence that Beck is face-raped by a troupe of syphilis-ridden spider monkeys or that a giant pencil erases Keith Olbermann's mouth ala' Daffy Duck, but that's my right as much as it is their's to spew such nonsense. Beauty of this country, that's what it is.

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    “’Occupy’ is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the ‘movement’ – HAH! Some ‘movement,’ except if the word ‘bowel’ is attached — is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves,” Miller wrote. “[...] In the name of decency, go home to your parents, you losers. Go back to your mommas’ basements and play with your Lords Of Warcraft. Or better yet, enlist for the real thing. Maybe our military could whip some of you into shape.”
    Okay, yes his statements are a little harsh, but they are unfortunately not all that inaccurate. Th fact is that Occupy as a movement was asanine. IT was to politics what the slut walk was to feminism... a waste of time, with no achievable goal, or even well thought out rhetoric.

    An in the end, the main point is, that while Frank Miller has an opinion on something, why would we make a big deal about it. He is allowed to have an opinion, he's even allowed to voice it: Its a failure of our own as readers that we've made an issue out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Broome View Post
    BTW all the article's examples (I enjoyed the piece btw) seemed to just find ways to take pot shots at conservatives. If you add up how often those of who aren't left-leaning have to listen to stuff like this, Miller's rant should barely even register as an issue.
    Agreed. A similar essay to Millers about the Tea Party would never have been as big a deal.

    Also it seems kind of harsh to call some one homophobic just because they didn't support Prop 8. To me that is as bad as anything Frank Miller said.

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