CBR: Pipeline - Nov 15, 2011

[CBR News]

Augie offers up a couple of business ideas to Diamond Distributors to keep up with the times. Plus, Norm Breyfogle returns to Batman, and a word of consolation for Frank Miller fans.


Full article here.

[ShadowBoxing]

"Frank Miller has just made you question your world. It's healthy for you. Enjoy."

If you honestly believe THIS is what happened when I read what Frank Miller thought about OccupyWallstreet you are sadly mistaken. In fact, I wasn't surprised for one second that Frank Miller would say such a thing because that is a man who never once questioned his world.

This may sound arrogant, but whatever, I'm smarter than Frank Miller. He's more successful, but perhaps my own mild amusement at his deranged views on the world kept me reading. We are talking about a man here who is clearly jaded about women, insensitive to anyone but himself, and very much resembles the mentally unsound protagonists he's so fond of writing. In fact I rather feel sorry for anyone who agrees with him because they're alligning their own politics with a man whose mind spawned the character Marv.

I could never write Marv, my mind simply isn't that far in the gutter.

No, my problem with Frank Miller is he thinks people honestly care about these thoughts he has. Some do and that's sad. It's sad anyone would buy "Holy Terror" for example, that book is so degrading to Muslims it's simply inappropriate.

I have a little higher opinion of Freedom of Speech than Frank. I think that Frank needs to think a little more about the things that he says. While I don't think he should be locked up (hence the "Freedom" thing), I think he's reaping exactly what he sowed. Calling a bunch of frusterated Americans who work hard for very little "rapists" in not just in poor taste, it's false. Again, not surprising.

Again, the problem is clearly Miller doesn't challenge his world. How much research on Muslims do you think he did for "Holy Terror"? Seems to me he didn't do any. Didn't challenge a single racist notion he had about Muslims, and the same goes here. He clearly spoke without even an attempt to put himself in their shoes, to try to understand their side of the argument, he just spoke as if anyone really cared.

Yeah, Miller needs to stick to writing deranged old men and flithy young whores, it's what he's good at anyways.

[stk]

It's a healing tool to crank the sarcasm

If you need help, crack open your collection of "Doonesbury" strips until the pain goes away. Or "Sandman." Or something NPR might recommend to you.

Uh-huh. A healing tool, eh?

[kalorama]

Yes, "Batman: Holy Terror." It was the first DC Elseworlds book, and it preceded Frank Miller's by twenty years.

Well, yes and no. Holy Terror was the first Elseworlds branded title, but Gotham By Gaslight is generally considered the first of the line.

[keilthetarheel]

"Frank Miller has just made you question your world. It's healthy for you. Enjoy."

If you honestly believe THIS is what happened when I read what Frank Miller thought about OccupyWallstreet you are sadly mistaken. In fact, I wasn't surprised for one second that Frank Miller would say such a thing because that is a man who never once questioned his world.

This may sound arrogant, but whatever, I'm smarter than Frank Miller. He's more successful, but perhaps my own mild amusement at his deranged views on the world kept me reading. We are talking about a man here who is clearly jaded about women, insensitive to anyone but himself, and very much resembles the mentally unsound protagonists he's so fond of writing. In fact I rather feel sorry for anyone who agrees with him because they're alligning their own politics with a man whose mind spawned the character Marv.

I could never write Marv, my mind simply isn't that far in the gutter.

No, my problem with Frank Miller is he thinks people honestly care about these thoughts he has. Some do and that's sad. It's sad anyone would buy "Holy Terror" for example, that book is so degrading to Muslims it's simply inappropriate.

I have a little higher opinion of Freedom of Speech than Frank. I think that Frank needs to think a little more about the things that he says. While I don't think he should be locked up (hence the "Freedom" thing), I think he's reaping exactly what he sowed. Calling a bunch of frusterated Americans who work hard for very little "rapists" in not just in poor taste, it's false. Again, not surprising.

Again, the problem is clearly Miller doesn't challenge his world. How much research on Muslims do you think he did for "Holy Terror"? Seems to me he didn't do any. Didn't challenge a single racist notion he had about Muslims, and the same goes here. He clearly spoke without even an attempt to put himself in their shoes, to try to understand their side of the argument, he just spoke as if anyone really cared.

Yeah, Miller needs to stick to writing deranged old men and flithy young whores, it's what he's good at anyways.

LOL - you have such a high opinion of freedom of speech that you hate when Miller (or probably anyone who you disagree with) uses it

PS - smart people aren't afraid of differing opinions - in fact, they welcome them


PPS - "research on Muslims"?? He didn't write a book about Muslims, why would he have to research them?? Yeah, you're a genius

[keilthetarheel]

"Frank Miller has just made you question your world. It's healthy for you. Enjoy."

If you honestly believe THIS is what happened when I read what Frank Miller thought about OccupyWallstreet you are sadly mistaken. In fact, I wasn't surprised for one second that Frank Miller would say such a thing because that is a man who never once questioned his world.

This may sound arrogant, but whatever, I'm smarter than Frank Miller. He's more successful, but perhaps my own mild amusement at his deranged views on the world kept me reading. We are talking about a man here who is clearly jaded about women, insensitive to anyone but himself, and very much resembles the mentally unsound protagonists he's so fond of writing. In fact I rather feel sorry for anyone who agrees with him because they're alligning their own politics with a man whose mind spawned the character Marv.

I could never write Marv, my mind simply isn't that far in the gutter.

No, my problem with Frank Miller is he thinks people honestly care about these thoughts he has. Some do and that's sad. It's sad anyone would buy "Holy Terror" for example, that book is so degrading to Muslims it's simply inappropriate.

I have a little higher opinion of Freedom of Speech than Frank. I think that Frank needs to think a little more about the things that he says. While I don't think he should be locked up (hence the "Freedom" thing), I think he's reaping exactly what he sowed. Calling a bunch of frusterated Americans who work hard for very little "rapists" in not just in poor taste, it's false. Again, not surprising.

Again, the problem is clearly Miller doesn't challenge his world. How much research on Muslims do you think he did for "Holy Terror"? Seems to me he didn't do any. Didn't challenge a single racist notion he had about Muslims, and the same goes here. He clearly spoke without even an attempt to put himself in their shoes, to try to understand their side of the argument, he just spoke as if anyone really cared.

Yeah, Miller needs to stick to writing deranged old men and flithy young whores, it's what he's good at anyways.

So you're mad at Miller for calling the Occupy folks pond scum, yet you think that whores are such sub-humans that they don't deserve to have books (such as Sin City) written about them. Yeah, you're not a hypocrite

[Monel]

Calling a bunch of frusterated [sic] Americans who work hard for very little "rapists" in not just in poor taste, it's false.

I think what Miller was referring to was how the Occupy Movement often discouraged women assaulted at the demonstrations from going to the police and episodes like these:

Cleveland: 10/18/2011 — ‘Occupy Cleveland’ Protester Alleges She Was Raped
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/1...she-was-raped/

New York: 10/25/2011 — Three Men Threatened to Kill 24-Year-Old Occupy Wall Street Protester for Reporting Rape
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2798022/posts

New York: 11/5/2011- "Some of the male OWS protesters remained in denial over the growing number of sex attacks. “Sexual harassment gets called rape, and it’s not,” one scoffed when told of the women’s tent."
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...IwDGt2I1rM33vL

Baltimore: 10/18/2011 — #OccupyBaltimore Discourages Sexual Assault Victims from Contacting Police
http://biggovernment.com/dhunter/201...-perpetrators/

Boston: 10/20/2011 — Occupy Boston Doesn’t Want Police Involved in Rape
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katehic...olved_for_rape

Cleveland: 10/29/2011 — Rape Reported at Occupy Cleveland
http://video.foxnews.com/v/122585622...upy-cleveland/

Dallas: 10/24/2011 — Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/a...occupy-dallas/

Glasgow: 10/26/2011 — Woman Gang-Raped
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-cen...-protest-camp/

Lawrence, KS: 10/25/2011 — Sexual Assault Reported at Occupy Camp
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/oc...-south-park-c/

NY: 10/30/2011 — Woman Assaulted in Her tent
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...nspzJ7VGC9nJZP

Baltimore: 10/31/2011 — Woman Claims She was Raped at #OccupyBaltimore
http://biggovernment.com/publius/201...-be-shut-down/

Dallas, TX: 11/1/2011: Man Arrested for Child Sex assault at Occupy Dallas Camp
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Occup...133033828.html

NYC: 11/3/2011 — Occupier Busted In Tent Grope, Suspected In Rape
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...8pULWA6cPzgnXL

Philadelphia, PA: 11/13/2011 — Occupier Arrested for Rape
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...ime&id=8429956


-----------------------------------------------------------
"Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." -Alfred the Butler in The Dark Knight

[Andrew Brown]

This may sound arrogant, but whatever, I'm smarter than Frank Miller.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

I had to join just to do that
ass

[Kikaider]

Wow, nicely said, Augie. I find the anger towards Frank' statements just a knee-jerk reaction. I would imagine/ hope it will blow over fairly quickly.

[ticklefist]

Bawwwww hawwww hawwww nobody noticed I released a graphic novel.

Oh quit being such a fucking pussy.

[Rick Worley]

Reading the ramblings of an insane racist idiot doesn't make me question my world view, it makes me sad that there are insane racist idiots in the world. And people bending over backward to justify outright ignorance as being "a different opinion," make me pretty sad too.

[Fan-El]

Freedom of speech works BOTH ways, something far-right conservatives (and not mainstream conservatives) always fail to understand. Miller can say whatever he likes, and I can vehemently and passionately express my objections to it. THAT'S how freedom of speech works. Far right conservatives think that it means that they get to spew whatever racist nonsense they like without objection from others. Sorry...that's a big NO.

Mon-El...your defense of him is ludicrous. And you have a lot of far right-wing "sources" in your list.

It's not healthy to hate the free speech of protesters, not in a true Democracy anyway. I've always defended the Tea Party people (even while pointing out their contradictory ideas). But when people called them hateful names, I'd remind them that protest is as American as apple pie.

Miller's hatred of Muslim people borders on mental illness, frankly. Apparently he became so frightened, after 9/11, that he veered hard to the ideological far fringe right and started hating the millions of people who are Muslim. Many of the people who died in the twin towers...people who were from all over the world...were Muslim. His reaction is pure cowardice, jumping at shadows in the windmills of his mind. He's frightened, and over-reacting. His ideas are not "healthy"...to the contrary, they're deeply disturbed.

What I find most interesting is that any conservative would embrace this rubbish. Old school conservatives are mostly focused on the role of government in curbing individual freedom. They aren't ranting about the boogey man in the park, or the chupacabra in the Mosque. I would think that mainstream conservatives would be most outraged by these kinds of sentiments, because they fly in the face of the conservative principle that individual freedom is of paramount importance. But the media is only interested in demonizing mainstream conservatives by always tying them in with far right wing people (who are often seriously unhinged). Then internet posters ( often so called conservative ones) follow up by further stereotyping conservatives as being fringe racists who hate freedom. The friends I have who are conservative hated Miller's insane rant precisely because it's the kind of thing that creates fodder for those who want to paint all conservatives as bigots who hate Muslims, young people, etc. Mainstream conservatives are far more reasonable, kind, and intelligent than the scaredy cat Miller and his looney tunes show. It's a shame they get lumped in with him.

Miller's hatred is not "healthy" for anyone. We are Americans...we don't lash out because we're terrified of teenagers protesting in parks, tea party people having picnics, or Muslims worshiping in our free society. Fear and hatred are the antithesis of everything that America is all about. I'm not going to embrace Miller. But I do embrace my conservative friends, people who are not bigots and are intelligent, gentle, thoughtful people. We need more of them and less Frank Millers.

[dancj]

Well, yes and no. Holy Terror was the first Elseworlds branded title, but Gotham By Gaslight is generally considered the first of the line.

Plus IIRC later editions of Gotham by Gaslight actually carried the logo, so it was the first published Elseworlds book - but not the first book to actually have the logo.

[dancj]

"Frank Miller has just made you question your world. It's healthy for you. Enjoy."

If you honestly believe THIS is what happened when I read what Frank Miller thought about OccupyWallstreet you are sadly mistaken.

I think you might have misunderstood Augie there. Unless I'm mistaken he wasn't meaning that Frank Miller's rant made you question anything directly. He meant that you had to question your love (if you ever had any) of the stuff he's already written and enjoyed, and now feel uncomfortable with do to your vastly different ideologies.

Personally I have to agree with Augie (and what Mark Millar said). Life is much easier if you can separate the art from the artist and enjoy people whose politics you disagree with - hence I can enjoy the works of Milller along with Chuck Dixon, Orson Scott Card, Ethan Van Sciver (at least I would if I liked his art) and Augie's columns - even though I'm right at the opposite end of the political spectrum from them.

[dancj]

Oh and one other thing. A lot of people are calling Miller racist, but is there any evidence of this?

It's clear he has a problem with Islam, but that's not a race - it's a religion. Religions carry with them belief systems that it's not unreasonable to have a big problem with some of those.

If he started having a problem with Arabic people regardless of actions or religion then there'd be no question about him being racist - I haven't seen any evidence of that though.