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  1. #6571
    I'm not a sidekick Kasper Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    So you agree, race isn't the overwhelming factor holding any character back? I don't think it's THE overwhelming factor. You re-quoted Genki Sudo showing shock at this statement, using 7thangels quote. You also said "I was living in denial". Sorry if I misinterpreted you; your post implied you disagreed/objected to what I said.
    Has ANYONE actually said that?

    Why is there constantly that Mr Fantastic style reach from "Some" to "Always" with these topics?

    If someone says "race is A factor" that's not the same as them saying "race is the ONLY factor".

  2. #6572
    for the lulz 7thangel's Avatar
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    nevermind.

    too much to unpack and it's not worth the effort, especially when i already know the outcome from experience

  3. #6573
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    No im saying youre a dishonest debator that moves goal posts and puts words in people mouths.

    Heres the thing. As long as you take this privileged attitude that three black characters is enough to satisfy folks need to see more diversity then you will always be at opposition to people.


    You're living in denial instead of stating that marvel or any other companies lack of diversity, you dishonestly say that others hate Storm,BP and etc. NO one hates those characters, they hate that theres not enough characters like them. AT ALL.

    I've been slapping you around about this for a long while now. As long as you look at things through "those people are always complaining" prism then you will always run into problems.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    So you agree, race isn't the overwhelming factor holding any character back? I don't think it's THE overwhelming factor. You re-quoted Genki Sudo showing shock at this statement, using 7thangels quote. You also said "I was living in denial". Sorry if I misinterpreted you; your post implied you disagreed/objected to what I said.

  4. #6574
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Exactly, I or anyone never brought that into the conversation. That thought is an offshoot of the apathy that we see from the privileged when race is even uttered. I.e. "Omggg why are they always talking about race!!"


    I've always said that this stuff leaks into an otherwise interesting conversation.

    For some race is an ADDED component. Overwhelming need not apply. One can't wrap their head around that if they are using privileged(ignorant) modes of thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper Cole View Post
    Has ANYONE actually said that?

    Why is there constantly that Mr Fantastic style reach from "Some" to "Always" with these topics?

    If someone says "race is A factor" that's not the same as them saying "race is the ONLY factor".

  5. #6575
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7thangel View Post
    nevermind.

    too much to unpack and it's not worth the effort, especially when i already know the outcome from experience
    Lol you're a model of restraint indeed.

  6. #6576
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    NVM, my head hurts now
    Last edited by Genki Sudo; 05-13-2012 at 12:51 PM.
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  7. #6577
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Bro! I was reading all that! lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    NVM, my head hurts now

  8. #6578
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    NVM, my head hurts now

    LOL, I saw that. And I was about to say great post.
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  9. #6579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper Cole View Post
    The problem with that is that you're assuming that all things are equal.

    In certain film genres black characters are disproportionate killed off.

    When the very first details and trailers for First Class came out and Darwin was revealed as a character myself and others said they were going to find a way to kill off Darwin...A bunch of other posters were acting like we were being quick to judge or paranoid, but low and behold the mutant who's only power is NOT to die ended up dying in the film.

    Same goes for Chronicle, people saw that coming from a mile away.

    "The Black guy in the group dying" is a tired and racist film troupe and many are just sick and tired of seeing it. I'm so sick of it that if I get even a hint of that in a film trailer I wont support the film.

    As for First Class not not "Preaching about Civil Rights"...The film actually should have touched on it at least once. I don't think it should have a been a major plot point but it should have at least been mentioned seeing as how a major theme of the film (And the X-Men as a franchise) is the fight for equal rights for minority groups.
    I agree with the civil rights part, but I've seen more films where the minority doesn't die that it's not a troupe for me. Maybe I'm just not watching the right films, then again maybe I am.

  10. #6580
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    My bad gang, I was just like "really"
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  11. #6581
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    My bad gang, I was just like "really"

  12. #6582
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    Ah how cute
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  13. #6583
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper Cole View Post
    Has ANYONE actually said that?.
    Has anyone said race if the overwhelming factor that hinders certain characters from succeeding? No. No-one has said that. Have I said race ISN'T the over-whelming factor? YES. Have others agreed? Hard to tell... I have seen plenty of posts doing everything to AVOID answering a simple yes or no question. Yes. I have seen posts saying "is anyone saying that?" (but again, when asked, no-one ACTUALLY says it's NOT the overwhelming factor). Which begs the question = why? Why is no poster willing to actually second the idea/or state their stance on the question: "is it or is it not the overwhelming factor"? You tell me; or better yet, just simply answer: do you think race is the predominant/over-whelming factor that hinders a character's chances of succeeding? It's honestly just a yes or no answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    Heres the thing. As long as you take this privileged attitude that three black characters is enough to satisfy folks need to see more diversity then you will always be at opposition to people.
    Why is it, when discussing "minorities and other issues in comics" is black males the only thing posts seem to want to talk about the majority of the time? I never said Marvel's three black characters is enough. I'm saying Marvel diversity (which, shockingly, houses more than just black males) is very good. And it is. Women. LGBT. Ethnicities. Nationalities. This is all diversity.

    Also, why do you assume I'm privileged? Just because I don't like or imagine the word as one giant racist place? Just because I look at Marvel's diversity and applaud it? Is being positive and optimistic a privilege these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose100 View Post
    You're living in denial instead of stating that marvel or any other companies lack of diversity, you dishonestly say that others hate Storm,BP and etc. NO one hates those characters, they hate that theres not enough characters like them. AT ALL.
    No-one hates Black Panther? Really? Some Storm fans would BEG to differ. I would assume all characters have fans that can't stand them (even obscure ones). Me? I can't stand Steve Rogers; and recently Traitorine and Beastocrite (just made that second one up right now, it's brilliant!). That said... where did I state fans hate Storm and Black Panther? The Storm part especially surprises me; considering what a massive fan I am of her.
    "I don't know how to please you Lord, but I think the fact I try to please you, pleases you."

  14. #6584
    BUY LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverZeal View Post
    Reloaded....d fella u r referring 2 was a member of d council & sumwat a believer in Neo s u mentiond, dey NEVER debated filosofy but rather discussd it & it md perfect sense bcuz it was directly relating 2 Neo's 'path' as d '1' which Neo himself was still uncertain of wat exactly he was supposed 2 achieve. D discussion dat u mention as forced with relating 2 co-existence between man & machine...d council member gv Neo an alternative insight in2 human-machine relations it not simply just "machines r bad".
    It felt "forced" in the sense, for no real reason, they segued into an actual philosophical debate. It felt completely inorganic. He comes up, asks how he is; and they descends into a debate on philosophical concepts. Now for some, that might have worked; for me it felt forced.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverZeal View Post
    In answering 2 d subtly & filosofical situations u spoke of....Neo was just way 2 gr8 4 sublty bcuz d entire human race literally sat on his neck with all hving these grandiose expectations of Neo as their saviour yet he was still very uncerain on hw & wat exactly he was supposed 2 do. Not dat filosofical sublty didnt exact in Reload...it had many esp d power & significance of choice.
    Keanu Reeves maybe way to weak an actor for subtly... there we can agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverZeal View Post
    D was also d filosofical sublety of Morfeus who his entire life fought so devotdly & dedicately 2 free humans from mental control of false reality of d Matrix based on his unshaken believe in d profecy of Neo only d discover in Matrix Revolutions/MR dat his very belief & life long dedication was simply "another method of control"/ false reality.........d very thing Morfeus was & had been fighting against d entire time. Now dat his both situations & subtly of filosofy.
    I agree the situations in the sequels open up great philopshical ideas (the concept of the Oracle morphing in the third one -- yes due to death, but they handled it well -- was excellent; and the most organic of the "concept dialogue")... but for me it was the dialogue, not the concepts; that felt shoe-horned in. I wish I could remember more specifics; as I say, it's been years since I saw either.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverZeal View Post
    Of course Reload had d most if not d best martial arts sequences we/SZ hv eva seen & hvnt seen anything close 2 dat since den.
    Oh, I would massively disagree. I think fights with heart in them; ones that carry emotional weight to the conflict; ALWAYS win out. I adore Yu Shu Lien's fight against Jen in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000) because of the emotional betrayal and resentment the characters felt IN the fight. I mean just going through such a massive array of weapons was fantastic. In the Matrix series, Neo vs. Mr. Smith in the first film was, in my eyes, the best fight.
    "I don't know how to please you Lord, but I think the fact I try to please you, pleases you."

  15. #6585
    I'm not a sidekick Kasper Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    I agree with the civil rights part, but I've seen more films where the minority doesn't die that it's not a troupe for me. Maybe I'm just not watching the right films, then again maybe I am.
    It's an issue of GENRE.

    The "Black guy dies" thing has LONG been a trope of horror films, even the people who MAKE these films have pointed out that it trope for a long time and only recently (within the last 15 years) have some film makers started going away from that.

    Scream 2 was actually going to play with that trope by having the first two characters in the film to die be black, but at the end you were supposed to learn that the killers were also black, but the script leaked online so they changed it at the last moment.

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