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  1. #6361

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    Additionally, Nick Fury in the movie universe was never in WWII. Ergo, Byrne doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about per usual.
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  2. #6362
    Senior Member Dr Will Hatch's Avatar
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    If it's based on their dislike of black people, yes. But maybe they don't appreciate their favorite characters being changed. I don't care myself, since I like both incarnations. If you don't like Ultimate comics or Ultimate Fury though, for reasons other than race, it's not bigotry. Was it racist for fans of "Avatar: The Last Airbender" to complain that the film adaptation whitewashed all the characters?

  3. #6363

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    If it's based on their dislike of black people, yes. But maybe they don't appreciate their favorite characters being changed. I don't care myself, since I like both incarnations. If you don't like Ultimate comics or Ultimate Fury though, for reasons other than race, it's not bigotry. Was it racist for fans of "Avatar: The Last Airbender" to complain that the film adaptation whitewashed all the characters?
    The difference being that Nick Fury in Avengers (Film) was never a Howling Commando and is associated with the original only in name and role as SHIELD Director. The Avatar characters were presented as being the same as their cartoon counterparts.

    Again. In no way did they allude to Nick Fury (Film) being a product of WWII. In that regard he's dissimilar from even his actual comic counterpart in the Ultimates.
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  4. #6364
    Senior Member Dr Will Hatch's Avatar
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    I understand, and I agree with you. As I was alluding to earlier though, most people know Fury from what they read over twenty years ago. It was a really jarring change for them.

    It's similar, in a way, to how some people confused John Stewart and Hal Jordan when the Green Lantern movie came out, thinking that they had whitewashed the character.

  5. #6365
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    I understand, and I agree with you. As I was alluding to earlier though, most people know Fury from what they read over twenty years ago. It was a really jarring change for them.

    It's similar, in a way, to how some people confused John Stewart and Hal Jordan when the Green Lantern movie came out, thinking that they had whitewashed the character.
    I know many people who have never read Nicky Fury in 616 but many who have read Ultimates because it was a new universe, new Avengers. To them Nick Fury has always been Black guy looking like Sam Jackson. I started with Ultimate U too and then saw the white Nick Fury and knew both.

    There are alot of casual marvel fans who only bother with Ultimate and adore marvel films dealing with their Ultimate world,characters. The white Nick Fury is old news to casual fans of Ultimate U and mainstream movie fans they know only the big names of Spidey,Iron Man,Thor,Hulk,Cap,Daredevil. Nick Fury isnt Spiderman mainstream famous.

    He is Hal Jordan yes to the black Green Lantern stewart that had many animation fans. Most people who have read white Fury over 20 years i can understand as comic fans but us comic fans are minority when it comes to mainstream films.
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  6. #6366
    Senior Member Dr Will Hatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    I know many people who have never read Nicky Fury in 616 but many who have read Ultimates because it was a new universe, new Avengers. To them Nick Fury has always been Black guy looking like Sam Jackson. I started with Ultimate U too and then saw the white Nick Fury and knew both.

    There are alot of casual marvel fans who only bother with Ultimate and adore marvel films dealing with their Ultimate world,characters. The white Nick Fury is old news to casual fans of Ultimate U and mainstream movie fans they know only the big names of Spidey,Iron Man,Thor,Hulk,Cap,Daredevil. Nick Fury isnt Spiderman mainstream famous.

    He is Hal Jordan yes to the black Green Lantern stewart that had many animation fans. Most people who have read white Fury over 20 years i can understand as comic fans but us comic fans are minority when it comes to mainstream films.
    The intent of the Ultimate line was to bring in new readers. I don't know how big it's influence has been to overshadow the main line, though. I don't see it. When Ultimate Spider-Man died, the few people who mentioned it to me wondered why they would kill off a character "who was fifty years old". Yeah.

    I don't really see too much of 616 Fury in comics anymore anyway. They've pretty much scaled him back wholesale.

  7. #6367
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    Which is funny, because a lot of the 70s Racist Marvel stuff ends up getting attributed to Byrne. To which, if I recall, he blames everything on Shooter.
    That's not entirely true. SOME of the 70's racist Marvel stuff ("some" in the case being one or two drawings) has allegedly been contributed to Byrne. According to both Priest and Byrne, that kind of racist crap was very common in the Marvel offices back in those days and was considered to be (to many white people) harmless unoffensive humor.

    While I don't think that Byrne is the nicest pro working in the industry, and at times acts like/comes off as a sarcastic "blankety blank", I don't think that he is a racist. At the most, the guy is just not PC.

  8. #6368
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    The intent of the Ultimate line was to bring in new readers. I don't know how big it's influence has been to overshadow the main line, though. I don't see it. When Ultimate Spider-Man died, the few people who mentioned it to me wondered why they would kill off a character "who was fifty years old". Yeah.

    I don't really see too much of 616 Fury in comics anymore anyway. They've pretty much scaled him back wholesale.
    Yeah i agree Ultimate brought in new readers but they arent as many as marvel hoped. Im one of them marvel lured into their MU universe. Ultimate is for old fans just like any other superhero comics now.

    Nowadays i dont read Ultimate, DCU,MU is enough for me. Still you said it why people who dont read Ultimate anymore still know black Nick Fury better than 616 Fury. 616 Fury is almost gone from the comics, i was almost shocked to see him in Winter Soldier first few issues. He havent gained mainstream appearance like other 616 heroes.
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  9. #6369
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    I'm not saying I agree with him, but I understand what he's saying, and there's some truth to it. As in, black Nick Fury as leader of an elite unit in WWII... it doesn't really work. And that's the Nick Fury he wants to see. Wanting to see the Nick Fury created by Kirby and revolutionized by Steranko, instead of Hitch photoreferencing Jackson, doesn't necessarily make one racist. For that matter, neither do capitalizing White and Black, but somehow, they do tend to go together, but that's something else entirely. Basically, it's possible it's just Old Nerd argument -- this isn't my version of the character, what the hell? And that could be just because they cast, oh, let's say Nic Cage.
    Yeah, that's pretty much how I view Byrne and his comments about black Nick Fury. Hell, I even agree with him.

  10. #6370
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    well tough s&%t, you want white Nick Fury, read some old comics

    207 million on the opening weekend means the black man ain't going nowhere (cinematically)!!!
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  11. #6371
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    well tough s&%t, you want white Nick Fury, read some old comics

    207 million on the opening weekend means the black man ain't going nowhere (cinematically)!!!
    There is not much Ultimate elements about Cap,Iron Man,Thor that get in the way of them being the core heroes they are in 616 and the only big ultimate part of the film i really enjoyed is because Sam Jackson did actually good job as Fury this time. More believable, cool,hardcore leader than he was in Iron Man,Cap etc
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  12. #6372
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    If it's based on their dislike of black people, yes. But maybe they don't appreciate their favorite characters being changed. I don't care myself, since I like both incarnations. If you don't like Ultimate comics or Ultimate Fury though, for reasons other than race, it's not bigotry. Was it racist for fans of "Avatar: The Last Airbender" to complain that the film adaptation whitewashed all the characters?
    Quoted for the ever lovin truth.

  13. #6373
    Senior Member Dr Will Hatch's Avatar
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    Sam Jackson was much better than David Hasselhoff was, that's for sure.


    (I thought SLJ was great. Wasn't a backhanded compliment).

  14. #6374

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    Don't know if this was post yet but here is a great interview with the writer of "Vescell," Enrique Carrion.

    http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2...arrion-vescell
    "On working through writers block"

    So I was standing in my garden at three in the morning with a glass of whisky, smoking furiously and swearing at the sky, reduced to waiting for the thunder bolt to hit when...

    Warren Ellis

  15. #6375
    Cat smells like fish StoneGold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    That's not entirely true. SOME of the 70's racist Marvel stuff ("some" in the case being one or two drawings) has allegedly been contributed to Byrne. According to both Priest and Byrne, that kind of racist crap was very common in the Marvel offices back in those days and was considered to be (to many white people) harmless unoffensive humor.

    While I don't think that Byrne is the nicest pro working in the industry, and at times acts like/comes off as a sarcastic "blankety blank", I don't think that he is a racist. At the most, the guy is just not PC.
    Allegedly might be pushing it. Unless other people were doodling on his art boards.

    That said, "he's not racist, he's just not PC" usually ends up being code for "he's racist, he's just old." Likewise, "He's set in his ways."
    The Punisher: Iím going to cauterize your rectum, sealing it shut, so when you turn those delicious Pink Pantsô Fruit Pies into waste products the bilirubin in your feces will leach into your bloodstream and youíll die screaming! And Iíll watch while having sex with this grateful prostitute!

    Trussed-Up Hooker: Blueberry are my favorite!

    In other words, what StoneGold said.
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