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  1. #6331
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Double post
    Last edited by Genki Sudo; 05-09-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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  2. #6332
    Forever Hooligan Genki Sudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandJP View Post
    "Easily" and "written out: sounds Stalin to me. The fact it is almost exclusively used in cooperation ( most of the time) with Women and Minority characters is frightening.

    A person could also Write out. Hawkeye. Black Widow. etc..All the same its quite ludicrous.

    Why do Minorities get this treatment the most..tho its like their accomplishments/ relationships are constantly getting retconned--or at least at a higher rate than whites.

    Also, On the Diversity front between the big 2..DC is killing MArvel.

    Yeah DC does what they always do, push that they're diverse before the comic comes out Nd then forget about it as soon as it comes out. They did it with Static Shock( and never even apologized for screwing that up and putting him limbo btw ), Mr. Terrific, Voodoo, Blue Beetle, Omac( you know when he was human ) and Batwing.

    They're both terrible but at least Marvel has kept both Miles and Luke front and center while DC is just "hey Cyborg's on the League so we're progressive"

    Hell I remember what they did to the last ethnic Hawkgirl, no thanks
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  3. #6333
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
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    What did they do to that Hawkgirl? I've been racking my brain trying to remember if there was ever a time that the Hawks were depicted as non-white outside of a previous life flashback. I think I am remembering correctly that Kendra was mixed but like Kyle Rayner it's not really something you could tell.
    Last edited by Mecegirl; 05-09-2012 at 01:18 PM.

  4. #6334
    Power Corrupts Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    am I the only one who has never liked the Falcon, ever?
    I use to not really care for him, but over the last two years I've kind of come around. I like him in the Ultimate Universe. In fact I'm loving a lot of aspects in the Ultimate Marvel Universe more than the 616.

    But overall he is okay, I think he really would shine more in a live action show or movie or a solo. Similarly to a character like the Rocketeer, his claim to fame was he was a guy with a jetpack with a snazzy outfit, but in a universe like marvel populated with all these other ridiculous characters guys like Falcon or Angel don't really stand out that much. Still he is portrayed well in the Ultimate Universe.

    In the 616 he doesn't seem as effective, because his main power is simply flight. With by itself amounts to next to nothing in a mainstream universe. The talking to birds is really interesting. Kind of like Aquaman communicating with sea life, however, much more convenient, because the majority of the time superheroes are on land. So overall I see him as a character with potential who is very underutilized.


    I hear he has been written well in Brubackers run of Captain America, but I haven't read those books so I can't personally attest to that claim.


  5. #6335

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genki Sudo View Post
    Yeah DC does what they always do, push that they're diverse before the comic comes out Nd then forget about it as soon as it comes out. They did it with Static Shock( and never even apologized for screwing that up and putting him limbo btw ), Mr. Terrific, Voodoo, Blue Beetle, Omac( you know when he was human ) and Batwing.

    They're both terrible but at least Marvel has kept both Miles and Luke front and center while DC is just "hey Cyborg's on the League so we're progressive"

    Hell I remember what they did to the last ethnic Hawkgirl, no thanks
    I stand corrected. I owe Marvel an APOLOGY.





    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    Ooooook.... I think you may be looking into this a little too deep. And possibly losing the forest for the trees. Putting horse before cart, and other such metaphors.


    It has nothing to do with minorities or women. It has to do with being secondary characters being easily written out. NOW you get to come around and complain about minorities and women being mostly written as secondary characters as opposed main protagonists/antagonists.


    But really, Stalin? Because whether or not fictional characters are essential to a plot line has anything to do with genocide? I think you may be skirting Godwin's Law with that one.
    I was trying to create a new Stalin meme. TO avoid Godwin's law...

    And I did over-reach. I was trying to shine a light on the standard practice of marginalizing minority and women heroes..im overly sensitive to "writing off those characters.".because there is a greater chance that it is a permanent death sentence.
    Last edited by RolandJP; 05-09-2012 at 02:33 PM.
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  6. #6336
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post


    I hear he has been written well in Brubackers run of Captain America, but I haven't read those books so I can't personally attest to that claim.
    I have read about The Falcon only in Brubakers run of Captain America and he was awesome street level hero there. Smart,tough. There is nothing not to like there. I miss seeing him written by Brubaker. Shame he is so focused on Winter Soldier even if Bucky is enough of my fav heroes.

    For once i wish a minority superhero like Falcon or a cool female hero like Black Widow got a series or mini with A-list treatment like being written by Brubaker.
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  7. #6337
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    For once i wish a minority superhero like Falcon or a cool female hero like Black Widow got a series or mini with A-list treatment like being written by Brubaker.
    why? so people still won't buy it....it could be written by Hemingway and you still won't get the fandom to buy a minority character led book, in droves
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  8. #6338
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    why? so people still won't buy it....it could be written by Hemingway and you still won't get the fandom to buy a minority character led book, in droves
    Sure the main american superhero readership dont follow those ongoings but the few heroes like that who survive make it on superstar creator name. Luke Cage, Batwoman have survived, become bigger on Bendis,Williams.

    Brubaker made Bucky from nobody to popular, important hero in 616. Captain America outsold Spiderman in the top 10 in recent times. He has many followers automaticly.
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  9. #6339
    Insanity is colorblind Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    why? so people still won't buy it....it could be written by Hemingway and you still won't get the fandom to buy a minority character led book, in droves
    Maybe not, but it would still be nice. I mean we can dream can't we.
    It may not sell the best but it could still raise the characters profile.
    And on the other side of the issue the companies could actually say that they really, really tried to push a minority or female character. No excuses for the fanbase.

  10. #6340
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    why? so people still won't buy it....it could be written by Hemingway and you still won't get the fandom to buy a minority character led book, in droves
    You know, usually I'd agree, but Ultimate Spidey's doing alright. Maybe there's a chance.

    Then again, there's the whole legacy hero issue.
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  11. #6341
    Power Corrupts Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    why? so people still won't buy it....it could be written by Hemingway and you still won't get the fandom to buy a minority character led book, in droves
    thats just cause people are buying fewer comics imo. And there are a number of reasons for that


  12. #6342
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    Two things. One, it was the 70s. Which means occasionally, you wrote something stupid in the name of being irreverent, because that's what people did in the 70s. Two, it's not the weirdest, potentially most offensive thing Englehart had ever done.
    I'm gonna throw out a theory and say that the only reason why Englehart retconned Falcon's origin with the whole stupid Snap Wilson crap, was because he was trying to make his origin more "realistic". In other words, this was a classic case of a so called "enlightened" white liberal who thinks that he knows how to write a "realistically authentic" black character from the "ghetto".

    On the flip side, there a number of people working for Marvel back in the 70's who referred to Falcon as the (I kid you not) "Fowl Coon". IIRC, one editor even had a Cap/Falcon drawing posted on his office door titled "CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FOWL COON".

  13. #6343
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    You guys need to check out Byrne's new superhero series TRIO. The entire team is made up of non white minorities. That's right folks, there's no white people on the team.

  14. #6344
    Cat smells like fish StoneGold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    I'm gonna throw out a theory and say that the only reason why Englehart retconned Falcon's origin with the whole stupid Snap Wilson crap, was because he was trying to make his origin more "realistic". In other words, this was a classic case of a so called "enlightened" white liberal who thinks that he knows how to write a "realistically authentic" black character from the "ghetto".
    Oh, totally. And it was the 70s, and every hero in a blaxploitation movie was a pimp.




    For that matter you've also got Englehart doing Nekra and Mandrill. And the not-quite-related wackiness of the mutant marrying the robot at the same time as the Vietnamese ex-hooker marries the dead guy controlled by a plant.
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    In other words, what StoneGold said.
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  15. #6345
    Psychological violence Moose100's Avatar
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    Why did Jabare get banned?

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