Catwoman #3 Preview/Discussion SPOILERS

[CocktailXYZ]

I must be one of the few who aren't enjoying this title. It's just coming off as extremes of sex and violence with little substance. Received nowhere near the emotional vibes everyone else has been raving about.

I'm half-inclined to stick with it a little longer to see where all the set up is going, but it's just not doing much for me so far.

[Earmites]

I must be one of the few who aren't enjoying this title. It's just coming off as extremes of sex and violence with little substance. Received nowhere near the emotional vibes everyone else has been raving about.

I'm half-inclined to stick with it a little longer to see where all the set up is going, but it's just not doing much for me so far.

I am curious to see what title does it for you...In no way am I trolling here...

What titles have you been getting substance and emotional vibes from?

Yes, I think the sex and violence are a tad heightened in this title, but you also get (All in just 3 issues mind you)

Catwoman being chased after by unknown thugs, her house blown up, Catwoman stealing from the mob, then setting up two rival mobs and tricking them into killing each other, Hints of her childhood trauma, A relationship with Batman that is VERY well done...complicated and layered, Catwoman seeing the ONLY person she truly cares about killed, Catwoman being a badass, revenge, and it all ends with her being caught covering it all up by the police.

How is that not substance, emotion, action, and suspenseful?

I am not saying you are wrong in how you feel when you read the title, just curious is all.

[DarkKnghtJared]

That picture never bothered me until you posted it.

Nah, those are ribs--the kinda surgical scars you're implying are typically right under the breasts.

Slightly OT, but I would love to see Amanda Conner do just about anything, but a Catwoman story is DEFINITELY on my top five.

[speedline]

Nah, those are ribs--the kinda surgical scars you're implying are typically right under the breasts.

Not only that, but surgical scars right under the breast would indicate a possible breast reduction, and in that case I would love to see the before pics ;)

[CocktailXYZ]

I am curious to see what title does it for you...In no way am I trolling here...

What titles have you been getting substance and emotional vibes from?

Currently, Batman has given an overarching sense of intrigue and material that has been keeping me very engaged. Emotionally, it's been Batman and Robin with the tenuous father and son relationship Damian and Bruce have. In recent times, I previously enjoyed Winick's take on Dick and his reluctance to take the cowl following RIP and loved the dynamics of Dick and Damian previously as the duo.

A relationship with Batman that is VERY well done...complicated and layered

I don't really see the complications or layers as presented in volume 3 so far. It seems mostly in the realm of physical, primal. Maybe I'm just not picking up on the complexities.

Catwoman seeing the ONLY person she truly cares about killed

Perhaps that hasn't hit me with the full weight it should have because I've not fully cleared my my internal registers of the baggage from before reboot.

I guess it merits re-reading with a corrected mindset.

[Earmites]

Currently, Batman has given an overarching sense of intrigue and material that has been keeping me very engaged. Emotionally, it's been Batman and Robin with the tenuous father and son relationship Damian and Bruce have. In recent times, I previously enjoyed Winick's take on Dick and his reluctance to take the cowl following RIP and loved the dynamics of Dick and Damian previously as the duo.

That's fair. I personally liked the dick/damian relationship as well...Don't care for the Bruce/Damian dynamic though...

I don't really see the complications or layers as presented in volume 3 so far. It seems mostly in the realm of physical, primal. Maybe I'm just not picking up on the complexities.

They both have the carnal thing going and on the surface you think they are just using each other...But in the course of the three issues... they have a cat and mouse playful relationship. It's rough and he toys with her to stop but she gets what she wants...She also kisses Bruce, but has a "I wouldn't cheat on Batman" attitude after she does so.

The rooftop scene at the end of 3 was great as well... She uses the moment not to kill a guy but to get away knowing Batman will save the dude.

Now I could be WAY over analyzing this (as I often do) but to me it shows that Bats gave her an ultimatum...Kill this dude and we are through. She basically chooses Batman. She doesn't kill him. She essentially lets him go for Batman but in a way that is still defiant enough for her to save face. Plus she uses the time to get away...But when she is in the apartment...She thinks the cops outside are Batman. She WANTS it to be Batman and can't believe it took him that long to find her.

Nothing is as it seems with this title. A simple painting theft turns into a double payment from two different mob families AND a shoot out between them.

The fence they are setting up in the first issue SEEMS like a reoccurring character...yeah they kill her off in issue two.

The love interest SEEMS like carnal lust...yet she is playful and loyal and he is tolerant and supportive of her (as long as she doesn't kill).

Perhaps that hasn't hit me with the full weight it should have because I've not fully cleared my my internal registers of the baggage from before reboot.

I guess it merits re-reading with a corrected mindset.

This wasn't an attempt to convert you or anything like that at all. No amount of argument is going to make you feel something for a comic you just don't see or feel.

I personally can't believe how brilliant this one comic is...A comic I just happened to pick up to see if it was kid friendly enough for my daughter. And like I said...I could be attaching way too much hidden meaning into this whole thing. Hell for all I know they could just be cranking out a story to see how many times they can write Selina in just a bra.

[DarkKnghtJared]

I don't really see the complications or layers as presented in volume 3 so far. It seems mostly in the realm of physical, primal. Maybe I'm just not picking up on the complexities.

There is definitely a heavy focus on their physical relationship, but their relationship has always had a heavy physical component to it--constantly chasing each other, her seducing him and clawing him to death at the same time, him trying to tie her down and make her submit--it wouldn't be the Bat/Cat dynamic without a lot of rough play.

But this also plays with the reasons why they both shouldn't be doing it. It reminds me of a lot of the quintessential Film Noir and their later successors--Double Indemity, The Postman Always Rings Twice, Body Heat--two people, flawed and twisted, are attracted to each other and comes together, even though they know that there are consequences and ways it could go horribly wrong, because the temptation is just too damn strong.

Bruce knows that he shouldn't be having a relationship with Selina, because she's a thief who should be put away for her laundry list of crimes, but he's fallen hard for her and can't bring himself to do it. Selina is a thief, and she knows that playing with (and really liking, loathe as she is to admit it) the quintessential hero is not a good idea, but the attraction is so strong that she can't help it.

[Glaucus]

I just read #3.

I really liked it.

What she did in the comic wasn't really out of her character if considering what happened to her.
She saw her friend's dead body and she was beaten up. She might have been killed. She was pushed to her limit.
She was going for revenge, being in a lot of emotional pain. Batman happened to find her and stop her from taking Bone's life. She pretty much chose Batman over killing Bone. Her connection with Batman is very important to her. She threw Bone off the building, knowing that Batman was going to save him which also gave her time to get away.

It looks like Catwoman has no identity to protect. Batman has seen her without a cowl/goggles. Bone and his fellows have too. Even cops have.


any ways...good issue! I am looking forward to #4.

[Glaucus]

That's fair. I personally liked the dick/damian relationship as well...Don't care for the Bruce/Damian dynamic though...



They both have the carnal thing going and on the surface you think they are just using each other...But in the course of the three issues... they have a cat and mouse playful relationship. It's rough and he toys with her to stop but she gets what she wants...She also kisses Bruce, but has a "I wouldn't cheat on Batman" attitude after she does so.

The rooftop scene at the end of 3 was great as well... She uses the moment not to kill a guy but to get away knowing Batman will save the dude.

Now I could be WAY over analyzing this (as I often do) but to me it shows that Bats gave her an ultimatum...Kill this dude and we are through. She basically chooses Batman. She doesn't kill him. She essentially lets him go for Batman but in a way that is still defiant enough for her to save face. Plus she uses the time to get away...But when she is in the apartment...She thinks the cops outside are Batman. She WANTS it to be Batman and can't believe it took him that long to find her.

Nothing is as it seems with this title. A simple painting theft turns into a double payment from two different mob families AND a shoot out between them.

The fence they are setting up in the first issue SEEMS like a reoccurring character...yeah they kill her off in issue two.

The love interest SEEMS like carnal lust...yet she is playful and loyal and he is tolerant and supportive of her (as long as she doesn't kill).



This wasn't an attempt to convert you or anything like that at all. No amount of argument is going to make you feel something for a comic you just don't see or feel.

I personally can't believe how brilliant this one comic is...A comic I just happened to pick up to see if it was kid friendly enough for my daughter. And like I said...I could be attaching way too much hidden meaning into this whole thing. Hell for all I know they could just be cranking out a story to see how many times they can write Selina in just a bra.

I agree with everything that you wrote. I am seeing what you're seeing.
Great summary!

[Godlike13]

I enjoyed this one. This book has been a bit of a guilty pleasure for me so far, but with this one i think i can drop the the guilty. I even might now put it on my subscription list (box), though maybe ill wait till the arc finishes before deciding that. Still, i think the odds are good that ill be with this book for the long haul. Which is pretty surprising, given i usully do not like Winick's work, save for UtRH and on Power Girl.

[ticklefist]

Nah, those are ribs--the kinda surgical scars you're implying are typically right under the breasts.

Haha I'm a grown ass man with the internet. You really didn't have to clarify.

[Selkirk]

this comic is just aces...it really seems shockingly fresh-the panels stick with you. guillem is a top notch talent-the expressions on catwoman's face completely sell this for me. scenes that might not work or would seem cliche in other books just work here-when she says 'im sorry' to Lola at the end...i was feeling it.

best book of the relaunch(yes even better than animal man ) for me.

[tabo61]

I liked how Judd Winick set's up the cliffhanger.

[Glaucus]

I don't really see the complications or layers as presented in volume 3 so far. It seems mostly in the realm of physical, primal. Maybe I'm just not picking up on the complexities.
I guess it merits re-reading with a corrected mindset.

I think it shows in the internal monologue but also the expressions

Catwoman #1

After Batman comes up to check on her, he expresses his concern about Catwoman putting herself and others in danger
Catwoman's inner monologue about Batman during her pouncing on him:
"This isn't the first time
Usually it's because I want him.
Tonight, I think it's because I need him."

Before she pounced on him, the look on her face showed that she was going through emotional stuff.

The monologue shows that she wants Batman and that she even needs him. This is unlike having a physical, fetish like thing for him without any emotion. There is some depth. For an independent woman like Selina to think that she needs Batman, says a lot about the deep feelings that she has for him.


Catwoman #2

After having sex, Batman again expresses his concern for Selina's safety. Catwoman mentions that that it could be that Batman likes her which he obviously does.
After Catwoman has sex with Batman and leaves,
Selina's inner monologue about Batman:
"But I shouldn't complain.
I just had sex with Batman. Again"

"And I like him."

That showed that she had genuine feelings for Batman. It wasn't all about flirtation,sex,or wanting to steal Batman from doing his job.

When she is talking to Bruce Wayne at the charity event where her caper was at
Selina's inner monologue about Bruce Wayne while being wide-eyed from the look that Bruce Wayne gives her.
Wow! That is some look. I swear to god, it's like musk. A hundred thoughts run through me and various parts of my anatomy.

That revealed that she had a strong attraction to Bruce Wayne.



I find with Catwoman, monologue helps me understand her feelings. A lot of times the things that she says or does is different from her actual monologue or .....because she comes off as possibly devious or playing games because she's a criminal , she may not seem sincere even though there is actually true deep feelings. I believe that she was always a complex character in every age that she was in. It doesn't matter if it's the Golden Age, Silver Age, Post Crisis, nor DCnu 52.


Catwoman #3
Batman trying to stop Catwoman from killing Bones,and Catwoman changing her mind after Batman says that he would not be able to forgive her if he kills Bones and then kisses him. The look that she had on her face was like she took Batman's words to heart. She didn't want to lose Batman by killing Bones just like Batman didn't want to lose her by her breaking the no-kill rule.

When she kisses Batman
Selina's internal monologue
"I almost lose myself in him"

"
That whole confrontation between Catwoman and Batman showed the tension and depth between them.

Man...it reminded me of Batman Returns when Batman tries to prevent Catwoman from killing Shreck except he failed to reach her. At least, this DCnu Catwoman listened and took Batman's words to heart.


I really do believe that new Catwoman series is really good at showing emotions through the writing and art.
IMHO Judd Winick is doing a good job at showing the interaction between Bruce Wayne/Batman and Selina Kyle/Catwoman. I'd prefer that they have sex later after Catwoman is reformed,they fall in love with each other,and Selina knows that Batman and Bruce Wayne are one and the same. I am curious about how the relationship between Selina and Bruce will develop. She's obviously attracted to Bruce and not just Batman. With her already having the hots for Batman, her feelings for Bruce could complicate matters that she gets torn between two men who are really the same man.

I was bothered with Catwoman #1 because of the sex between Catwoman and Batman. It wasn't because of the actual sex. I just didn't like that Catwoman doesn't know who Batman is and they have sex with their masks on as well as Batman having sex with Catwoman in her unreformed criminal stage.
Catwoman #2 got me liking the series because it showed that Selina Kyle/Catwoman is strongly attracted to both Batman and Bruce Wayne.
Catwoman #3 got me completely onboard the series because of the confrontation between Batman and Catwoman of Batman trying to stop Catwoman from killing Bones and Catwoman taking Batman's words to heart.

[TheCatBoy]

I was bothered with Catwoman #1 because of the sex between Catwoman and Batman. It wasn't because of the actual sex. I just didn't like that Catwoman doesn't know who Batman is and they have sex with their masks on as well as Batman having sex with Catwoman in her unreformed criminal stage.

Glauc, this isn't a criticism, actually its more of a compliment... but I always get so insanely overwhelmed by your posts. Your pockets of knowledge and history are obviously deep, especially when it comes to Selina... whether it be Silver-Age Selina, Post-Crisis Selina, Post-Year One Selina, Post-Zero Hour Selina, etc etc. You obviously know your stuff, but there are some things I find common amongst all of your intellectual ramblings about this specific character.

You take her entire history over the past 70+ years in to account when looking at her character now. This is not a bad thing at all, I just find it interesting. There are obvious reasons for this as well, Selina seems to have a trend-cycle (fashion term- yes, I went to school for it) when it comes to her overall career. The Golden Age Selina reformed a few times, then obviously Earth-2 Selina was reformed then married to Bruce then killed, Pre-DCnU Selina also was also "reformed" for a short while as well, but I don't think that Selina has to constantly reform to have relations with the Bat.

I prefer Selina to be a mysterious "villain"(using that term loosely)/anti-hero to Bruce. I love the struggle between the two and when Selina goes all reformed, I just find it less-intriguing. I just don't buy into an always-do-gooder Selina. I loved loved loved Brubaker's run on Catwoman V.3. I never pictured that Selina as completely reformed though, just that she (clearly) had a little bit of a mental breakdown at the end of Volume 2, and found comfort and somewhat of a calling in protecting the East End. But, I liked that she still managed to find time to be naughty... I was disgusted when Pfeifer decided to unnecessarily have Zatanna be the reason that she was "reformed", it was completely pointless and just dumb. And it gave me a hatred for that b*tch Zatanna.

Sorry for kind of veering from my point, which is: I don't think it's necessary for Selina to be reformed to have raunchy sex with Bruce, generally speaking, I don't think it's necessary for Selina to be completely reformed at all. I think Selina can still do good, but still have her naughtier moments. Obviously, this Selina needs to find her footing in life and figure out some sh*t before she can get there... but my hope is that they don't have to "reform" her completely because they ran out of ideas.

I find that I'm falling in love with this Selina all over again. I never read a whole lot of Winick in the past, but I find that he has an incredible handle on the character. He is giving us the basics on Catwoman that everyone knows, and delving deeper in to the psyche of who Selina is. This Selina has a few screws loose, but that's nothing new. But, Winick is taking it to that whole other level where I get a lot of hints of Michelle Pfeiffer/Tim Burton's Selina if she had a little bit more rage. She's obviously a seductress, but still the fact that there's that switch Selina has that can go off at any moment... and you better watch out, because "she'll scratch your eyes out!"

There is a place in my heart (obviously) for all versions of Selina, but being a child of the 80s, I personally feel closest to Selina from Year One onwards. Not only is that the Selina I grew up with, but its the Selina that I think we all get to know most about. Catwoman has big pockets of history pre-Year One, where you don't see the character for years in between. After the obvious success of Year One, Batman Returns, B:TAS, etc... Selina had a mini-series, and 2 on-goings that together gave her more than a 15 year run to only go right in to GCS that led directly back in to her own ongoing again. She has basically been going strong for ALMOST TWO DECADES (with a few months in between) being almost constantly featured in her own book. *pause* That's incredible for a female villain in comics, insane even. Almost unheard of. I just feel that we got to spend so much time with the post-YO/pre-DCnU Selina that, for me, she has been the easiest to bond with. Even if I don't agree with what the creators are doing with her *coughCarletoncoughPfeifercoughcoughcough*

The reason for that rant, and there is a point to all of this... is I'm kind of curious (we all know what curiosity did to the Cat) as to what your personal history with Selina is. I would never ask for your age, but when did start getting in to Catwoman, because obviously you know A LOT about her. There are moments where I freak out - "wait, did I know that" when I see one of your history rants about the character (for the most part I do, I just haven't read up anymore than once on any of the pre-Year One Catwoman-featured comics). I almost find myself twitching when reading your posts because I feel like I need to dive back in to my Catwoman Collection to find all the comics you're talking about. I'm definitely interested in knowing when and how you got in to Catwoman. What drew you to her, and what version you feel closest to. Which one you relate the most to.

You definitely seem like you hold the pre-Year One Selina close to your heart whenever talking about ANYTHING Catwoman. Even when you first started posting, I would see one of your 5 para posts, and I would think to myself "D*mn, Glauc knows his/her stuff (sorry, I don't know- not that it really matters). But, one thing, I find it easier when looking at this post-DCnU Selina is to look at her with completely fresh eyes. It's still good to compare and contrast from her past-selves... but this Selina has definitely ever-so changed slightly. This Bruce obviously would have basically anonymous sex with someone that he feels a definite connection to. And so, I guess, would Selina.

I hope that my post doesn't overwhelm you, I'm a little all over the place, it now being 2:40am and being wide awake... and frustrated at Arkham City's
Riddler Challenge "Prison Riot" (I always get Selina killed at the last round because of having TWO Stun Batons, and TWO Car-Door Shields against her) now back to it!