View Poll Results: The use of SHAKY CAM in Cap 2....

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  • Makes me want to see it MORE! I LOVE shaky cam!

    3 5.88%
  • Makes this a must MISS for me, it looks amateurish.

    3 5.88%
  • Doesn't impact my enjoyment of a film if it's in it or not.

    45 88.24%
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  1. #106
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    oops, format-challenging double post.
    Last edited by Alan Smithee; 05-28-2012 at 05:27 PM.

  2. #107
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    [QUOTE=Songbird/Diamondback;15246246]You're missing the point.

    Zola could be done, but he's been captured long ago. He didn't seem to have the drive to be a main villain and it's going to be tricky to have him show up as a robot without coming off as cornball/cheesy.
    From Dictionary.com
    chees·y
       [chee-zee] Show IPA
    adjective, chees·i·er, chees·i·est.
    1.of or like cheese: a cheesy aroma; a cheesy taste.
    2.Slang . inferior or cheap; chintzy: The movie's special effects are cheesy and unconvincing.

    More cheese, please. It's not the concept, but the execution that can be cheesy. Superheros are inherently cheeseballs.


    And no, don't forget the set up. We already know that there will be flashbacks to WWII in Cap 2. They said that in the news. And we know Peggy Carter is still alive. But there's still a major shift in continuity that needs to be established.
    Yup. Cap in a rom-com with a 99-year-old chica would be veddy cool. Those flashbacks? The signed-to-three-movies Sebastian Stan's backstory.

    And third, you always have to introduce new villains. Otherwise you won't have that much feeling of progression. You should build outwards, not on top of.

    You're hired! I did not know that. Man, Whedon really blew it by building up Loki from established continuity. That hack! I nominate you to direct.


    I didn't say they should use Armadillo. Just saying that people will see it regardless of villains. I mean, I bet nobody who isn't a comic fan knows villains past Red Skull ofr Cap.
    Bet they don't! I bet nobody who isn't a comic fan gives an Armadillo's pillow whether Red Skull and Mulder are in the sequel, as long as it's good.

    And you really don't get the idea of Cap being out of time for a sequel if you think it's just Myspace and AOL. He's discovering how much the world has changed. Look at how divided our nation can be. That would be a cause for concern.
    Cap "Man Outta Time" is essential to his character. For story purposes. But to plant it in reality? The vast majority of Americans were against US incursion into WWII. Segregation (including the Armed Forces) was as American as Apple Pie. Etc. And etc. Can't use the real world as a crutch when talking about the arc of this particular fantasy character. He is a fantasy character, right?

    And why the hell would Zemo have a submarine? Do you even read Zemo? He's a very cool character.
    Nemo, Zemo, Jules Verne or Jeph Loeb. None of it matters to movie goers. Most know just what they saw in the first flick, and what they saw was seeds planted for a sequel.

  3. #108
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    First of all, you're REALLY mad.

    From Dictionary.com
    chees·y
       [chee-zee] Show IPA
    adjective, chees·i·er, chees·i·est.
    1.of or like cheese: a cheesy aroma; a cheesy taste.
    2.Slang . inferior or cheap; chintzy: The movie's special effects are cheesy and unconvincing.

    More cheese, please. It's not the concept, but the execution that can be cheesy. Superheros are inherently cheeseballs.
    Yes, Superheroes are cheesy. But then youhave Batman and Robin levels of Cheesiness. Zola, a minor villain in the first film, would have be pulled off very well to work. But brain in robot body is kinda cheesy.

    Yup. Cap in a rom-com with a 99-year-old chica would be veddy cool. Those flashbacks? The signed-to-three-movies Sebastian Stan's backstory.
    We all know Sharon is most likely Cap's new girlfriend. But Cap needs to say goodbye to Peggy. And yeah, Bucky will be in Flashbacks. Doesn't mean that's a go ahead for "WINTER SOLDIER! LETS DO THIS! GO GO GO!" Let it sit a movie. If nobody buys Bucky is dead now, then make it feel like he is long gone for a film.

    You're hired! I did not know that. Man, Whedon really blew it by building up Loki from established continuity. That hack! I nominate you to direct.
    If it was just Loki, it wouldn't have worked. That's why the aliens were introduced. Let's be honest, Loki was a pushover if every Avenger, including Black Widow and Hawkeye, were able to one up him. He didn't even have an epic battle. Sure, Loki was great, but the aliens were needed for the new element.

    Bet they don't! I bet nobody who isn't a comic fan gives an Armadillo's pillow whether Red Skull and Mulder are in the sequel, as long as it's good.
    Why are you so hung up on Armadillo? I barely even know the character and you're acting like I'm convince he'll be in the next movie. The point was that no matter what the villain is, that people will show up, regardless if it's Bucky or not.

    Cap "Man Outta Time" is essential to his character. For story purposes. But to plant it in reality? The vast majority of Americans were against US incursion into WWII. Segregation (including the Armed Forces) was as American as Apple Pie. Etc. And etc. Can't use the real world as a crutch when talking about the arc of this particular fantasy character. He is a fantasy character, right?
    I don't understand your point here. But Cap realizing how much he missed and how much things have changed should be the theme of Cap 2, not "OH LOOK BUCKY! WE MUST REDEEM HIM!"

    Nemo, Zemo, Jules Verne or Jeph Loeb. None of it matters to movie goers. Most know just what they saw in the first flick, and what they saw was seeds planted for a sequel.
    [/QUOTE]

    Then why didn't the Hulk have any of his story elements in the Avengers? It was just Hulk. No Ross. Nobody else. I don't get where you think that they have to have Bucky and such for movie 2 when they already said that SHIELD is going to be the supporting cast for Cap 2.


    And seriously, take a chill pill. You could be right and they could do Bucky. But I really think they should hold off a movie for that.

  4. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
    Yup. Cap in a rom-com with a 99-year-old chica would be veddy cool. Those flashbacks? The signed-to-three-movies Sebastian Stan's backstory.
    A lot more people were enamored with Peggy Carter than they were with Zola. No one's suggesting they hook up, but a lot more people would be interested in knowing what happened to her than there are people who wonder what happened to the squat Nazi who never actually interacted with Cap.


    [B]
    Nemo, Zemo, Jules Verne or Jeph Loeb. None of it matters to movie goers. Most know just what they saw in the first flick, and what they saw was seeds planted for a sequel.
    Here's where you fail;

    The movie going public wouldn't realize there's seeds at all. When someone's face is on a lens, it's usually nothing more than a cool visual at best.
    Comic book fans would realize there are seeds, but they know much more than what the first movie told them.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback View Post
    First of all, you're REALLY mad.



    Yes, Superheroes are cheesy. But then youhave Batman and Robin levels of Cheesiness. Zola, a minor villain in the first film, would have be pulled off very well to work. But brain in robot body is kinda cheesy.



    We all know Sharon is most likely Cap's new girlfriend. But Cap needs to say goodbye to Peggy. And yeah, Bucky will be in Flashbacks. Doesn't mean that's a go ahead for "WINTER SOLDIER! LETS DO THIS! GO GO GO!" Let it sit a movie. If nobody buys Bucky is dead now, then make it feel like he is long gone for a film.


    If it was just Loki, it wouldn't have worked. That's why the aliens were introduced. Let's be honest, Loki was a pushover if every Avenger, including Black Widow and Hawkeye, were able to one up him. He didn't even have an epic battle. Sure, Loki was great, but the aliens were needed for the new element.



    Why are you so hung up on Armadillo? I barely even know the character and you're acting like I'm convince he'll be in the next movie. The point was that no matter what the villain is, that people will show up, regardless if it's Bucky or not.



    I don't understand your point here. But Cap realizing how much he missed and how much things have changed should be the theme of Cap 2, not "OH LOOK BUCKY! WE MUST REDEEM HIM!"
    [B]Then why didn't the Hulk have any of his story elements in the Avengers? It was just Hulk. No Ross. Nobody else. I don't get where you think that they have to have Bucky and such for movie 2 when they already said that SHIELD is going to be the supporting cast for Cap 2.

    And seriously, take a chill pill.
    You could be right and they could do Bucky. But I really think they should hold off a movie for that.
    [/QUOTE]

    I couldn't be more amused. People insisting what won't be in the sequel without offering a logical alternative is fun on wheels. Still, your Armadillo idea is wonderful, but I, with all due respect, can't understand why moviegoers would find Hayley Altwell and her sweater puppies to be sexier than Armin Zola (to paraphrase Erskine, maybe it's time we let the liddle guy have a chance).

    More cheese, puhleese.
    Last edited by Alan Smithee; 05-29-2012 at 12:33 PM.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
    Then why didn't the Hulk have any of his story elements in the Avengers? It was just Hulk. No Ross. Nobody else. I don't get where you think that they have to have Bucky and such for movie 2 when they already said that SHIELD is going to be the supporting cast for Cap 2.
    I couldn't be more amused. People insisting what won't be in the sequel without offering a logical alternative is fun on wheels. Still, your Armadillo idea is wonderful, but I, with all due respect, can't understand why moviegoers would find Hayley Altwell and her sweater puppies to be sexier than Armin Zola (to paraphrase Erskine, maybe it's time we let the liddle guy have a chance).

    More cheese, puhleese.[/QUOTE]

    Why do you keep harping on Armadillo? It was a fucking extreme example! You're acting like I want to see him!

  7. #112
    Iron Patriot Stars 'N Stripes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdulabulbul_Amir View Post
    A lot more people were enamored with Peggy Carter than they were with Zola. No one's suggesting they hook up, but a lot more people would be interested in knowing what happened to her than there are people who wonder what happened to the squat Nazi who never actually interacted with Cap.




    Here's where you fail;

    The movie going public wouldn't realize there's seeds at all. When someone's face is on a lens, it's usually nothing more than a cool visual at best.
    Comic book fans would realize there are seeds, but they know much more than what the first movie told them.
    It would be a real copout if they didn't adequately bring closure to Cap's relationship with Peggy.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stars 'N Stripes View Post
    It would be a real copout if they didn't adequately bring closure to Cap's relationship with Peggy.
    Which Josh Whedon has as a deleted scene for the Avengers. I'm hoping that scene is in Cap 2.

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  10. #115
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    All I meant that any villain could be put in there and it would sell when you said nobody wanted Crossbones and Zemo, both very good villains.

  11. #116
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    did somebody detonate a Mad Bomb in this thread?
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  12. #117
    Senior Member Rimmer's Avatar
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    I realize a lot of the banter on here is about Winter Soldier, and I can relate, being a Cap fan since I was a kid in the 70's. But I'm viewing this from my wife's perspective: She saw the movie with me, and didn't take ANYTHING away from that movie regarding Bucky. He was a bit player, a buddy who died. For her, and I would imagine most non-comic book fans of the movie, they remember Steve's becoming Cap, Red Skull, and the love interest with Peggy. Now you could argue there are many things that were foreshadowed in Cap 1, but let's face it, if they don't beat you over the head with it, a lot of the audience will miss it (like my wife, as an example).

    So Cap 2, being focused as the "Man out of Time" adjustment period for Cap makes perfect sense. They have said it will follow immediately after the Avengers movie, which essentially followed shortly after Cap 1. So Steve's only been in our century for a few months I would guess. Once the alien invasion is over, he not only has to adjust to the new time, but also has to adjust to his new hero status, as everyone saw him on TV via the Chitauri invasion.

    You could open the movie with a WW2 flashback of Steve, Bucky, and the Howlers on a mission. Maybe have Peggy there as well in a pre-mission briefing. Show the mission which would bring in the action, perhaps foreshadow a future villain (Heinrich Zemo makes perfect sense) and then have him wake up from a dream. This would get you feeling more sorry for Steve, knowing what he's lost, it could foreshadow a future villain, etc... And then in the modern world, perhaps he gets involved in a new SHIELD mission where he meets Helmut Zemo, who has this vendetta against him due to his father's defeat shown in the flashback, something like that. If they go the Sharon route, which I'm assuming they would, she's a SHIELD agent on the mission, they get to bond during the modern day mission, she helps him get acclimated to the modern world, they hit it off...

    Personally I think this movie practically writes itself. You don't NEED some big bad, this story is more a drama than an action movie. There would be action elements in it, obviously, but I think people are going to go see it regardless if the bad guy is a guy they know (Red Skull), have seen before in some form (Zola), or never heard of (Zemo, Crossbones, whomever). I also think the Steve/Bucky relationship could/should be more fleshed out more via flashbacks in Cap2, as I said before, some don't think of him as a major character in any way. Really showing their bond I think would not only strengthen viewers' knowledge of Bucky's character, but also give us even more sympathy for Steve in the modern world, knowing what he's missing - his best friend in Bucky, his best girl in Peggy, all his buddies in the Howlers, his whole purpose of being now over (WW2)...

    I agree with other posters, who said that Cap 2 would be Cap coming to grips with what he's lost, and getting acclimated in the modern world, to 'move on' so to speak, and then perhaps the ending of movie (leading into cap 3) would be him finding out Bucky is alive and working as the Winter Soldier, and then BAM! movie's over. Great suspense for the 3rd movie.
    Last edited by Rimmer; 05-29-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rimmer View Post
    I realize a lot of the banter on here is about Winter Soldier, and I can relate, being a Cap fan since I was a kid in the 70's. But I'm viewing this from my wife's perspective: She saw the movie with me, and didn't take ANYTHING away from that movie regarding Bucky. He was a bit player, a buddy who died. For her, and I would imagine most non-comic book fans of the movie, they remember Steve's becoming Cap, Red Skull, and the love interest with Peggy. Now you could argue there are many things that were foreshadowed in Cap 1, but let's face it, if they don't beat you over the head with it, a lot of the audience will miss it (like my wife, as an example).

    So Cap 2, being focused as the "Man out of Time" adjustment period for Cap makes perfect sense. They have said it will follow immediately after the Avengers movie, which essentially followed shortly after Cap 1. So Steve's only been in our century for a few months I would guess. Once the alien invasion is over, he not only has to adjust to the new time, but also has to adjust to his new hero status, as everyone saw him on TV via the Chitauri invasion.

    You could open the movie with a WW2 flashback of Steve, Bucky, and the Howlers on a mission. Maybe have Peggy there as well in a pre-mission briefing. Show the mission which would bring in the action, perhaps foreshadow a future villain (Heinrich Zemo makes perfect sense) and then have him wake up from a dream. This would get you feeling more sorry for Steve, knowing what he's lost, it could foreshadow a future villain, etc... And then in the modern world, perhaps he gets involved in a new SHIELD mission where he meets Helmut Zemo, who has this vendetta against him due to his father's defeat shown in the flashback, something like that. If they go the Sharon route, which I'm assuming they would, she's a SHIELD agent on the mission, they get to bond during the modern day mission, she helps him get acclimated to the modern world, they hit it off...

    Personally I think this movie practically writes itself. You don't NEED some big bad, this story is more a drama than an action movie. There would be action elements in it, obviously, but I think people are going to go see it regardless if the bad guy is a guy they know (Red Skull), have seen before in some form (Zola), or never heard of (Zemo, Crossbones, whomever). I also think the Steve/Bucky relationship could/should be more fleshed out more via flashbacks in Cap2, as I said before, some don't think of him as a major character in any way. Really showing their bond I think would not only strengthen viewers' knowledge of Bucky's character, but also give us even more sympathy for Steve in the modern world, knowing what he's missing - his best friend in Bucky, his best girl in Peggy, all his buddies in the Howlers, his whole purpose of being now over (WW2)...

    I agree with other posters, who said that Cap 2 would be Cap coming to grips with what he's lost, and getting acclimated in the modern world, to 'move on' so to speak, and then perhaps the ending of movie (leading into cap 3) would be him finding out Bucky is alive and working as the Winter Soldier, and then BAM! movie's over. Great suspense for the 3rd movie.
    Exactly. This is exactly what I've been thinking.

    Just hold off on Bucky. No need to rush him in.

  14. #119
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    To quote Aunt May from Spider-Man 2: "I believe there's a little Armadillo in all of us."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rimmer View Post
    I realize a lot of the banter on here is about Winter Soldier, and I can relate, being a Cap fan since I was a kid in the 70's. But I'm viewing this from my wife's perspective: She saw the movie with me, and didn't take ANYTHING away from that movie regarding Bucky. He was a bit player, a buddy who died. For her, and I would imagine most non-comic book fans of the movie, they remember Steve's becoming Cap, Red Skull, and the love interest with Peggy. Now you could argue there are many things that were foreshadowed in Cap 1, but let's face it, if they don't beat you over the head with it, a lot of the audience will miss it (like my wife, as an example).

    So Cap 2, being focused as the "Man out of Time" adjustment period for Cap makes perfect sense. They have said it will follow immediately after the Avengers movie, which essentially followed shortly after Cap 1. So Steve's only been in our century for a few months I would guess. Once the alien invasion is over, he not only has to adjust to the new time, but also has to adjust to his new hero status, as everyone saw him on TV via the Chitauri invasion.

    You could open the movie with a WW2 flashback of Steve, Bucky, and the Howlers on a mission. Maybe have Peggy there as well in a pre-mission briefing. Show the mission which would bring in the action, perhaps foreshadow a future villain (Heinrich Zemo makes perfect sense) and then have him wake up from a dream. This would get you feeling more sorry for Steve, knowing what he's lost, it could foreshadow a future villain, etc... And then in the modern world, perhaps he gets involved in a new SHIELD mission where he meets Helmut Zemo, who has this vendetta against him due to his father's defeat shown in the flashback, something like that. If they go the Sharon route, which I'm assuming they would, she's a SHIELD agent on the mission, they get to bond during the modern day mission, she helps him get acclimated to the modern world, they hit it off...

    Personally I think this movie practically writes itself. You don't NEED some big bad, this story is more a drama than an action movie. There would be action elements in it, obviously, but I think people are going to go see it regardless if the bad guy is a guy they know (Red Skull), have seen before in some form (Zola), or never heard of (Zemo, Crossbones, whomever). I also think the Steve/Bucky relationship could/should be more fleshed out more via flashbacks in Cap2, as I said before, some don't think of him as a major character in any way. Really showing their bond I think would not only strengthen viewers' knowledge of Bucky's character, but also give us even more sympathy for Steve in the modern world, knowing what he's missing - his best friend in Bucky, his best girl in Peggy, all his buddies in the Howlers, his whole purpose of being now over (WW2)...

    I agree with other posters, who said that Cap 2 would be Cap coming to grips with what he's lost, and getting acclimated in the modern world, to 'move on' so to speak, and then perhaps the ending of movie (leading into cap 3) would be him finding out Bucky is alive and working as the Winter Soldier, and then BAM! movie's over. Great suspense for the 3rd movie.


    In a two-hour movie, you could do both. Just Cap "coming to grips with what he's lost" is a Lifetime Channel movie. His past has to rear up its ugly head. To make an emo flick of Cap dancing with an old lady and taking on some villain who is basically the Red Skull in a burka isn't the movie I want to see.

    I want to see a movie with Armin Zola as a crazy man living as a television set and having Sebastian Stan on ice to do his bidding as an assassin (which we got a flash of in Cap 1). Brubaker stitched, deconstructed and resurrected the whole Cap mythos with that basic premise. It's great storytelling and it connects with the first installment. To go way off course and introduce fanboy faves Zemo and Agent 69/Sharon Carter is just whistling in the wind.
    Last edited by Alan Smithee; 05-29-2012 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Furthering sputter

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