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  1. #1
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    Default Max Allan Collins references in Fridays with Greg Hatcher

    http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...ry-afternoons/

    Dug out the interview from Amazing Heroes#119 with Max Allan Collins referenced in the above post.

    In Amazing Heroes#119 in 1987 (two years before the Michael Keaton film), MAC had an interview. He said the following:

    “I’m afraid what I’m running smack up into is the old Batman TV show controversy: the old business about, Gee that was a TV show that made fun of Batman and made fun of comic books, so we have to show people that Batman and comic books are serious and they’re adult and accordingly all the fun goes out of it. There was a reason why that TV show was played for laughs and that is when you put actual human beings in those costumes and act out those stories, it looks stupid. They betray their juvenile roots. It can’t be done straight. I defy them to do the movie straight”.

    Collins then said “I predict it [the then upcoming Batman film] will be an embarrassment if they try to do it without a sense of humor”.

    Collins made the same prediction in the book The Best of Crime and Detective TV, which he co-wrote with John Javna.

    Collins later says “I think that Miller’s Batman is the ultimate extension of the backlash against Adam West. The ultimate expression of We write comics, but we’re Serious, Thoughtful people “.

    More from Amazing Heroes#119:
    "But this astounds me. I do not understand why comics fans are ashamed of the fact that this branch of the art form, super-heroes, does have its basis in juvenile and adolescent fiction. There's nothing wrong with it unless you're trying to pretend it's adult.....in which case you have a serious problem".

    Collins later notes that his own Wild Dog ended up something more violent and serious than he anticipated. "I wanted to invent something that would make my financial life a lot more... luxurious. That potential is still there, but as usual I just followed my own natural story-telling bent and didn't pay any attention to what I should do for commercial reasons".

  2. #2
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    "More from Amazing Heroes#119:
    "But this astounds me. I do not understand why comics fans are ashamed of the fact that this branch of the art form, super-heroes, does have its basis in juvenile and adolescent fiction. There's nothing wrong with it unless you're trying to pretend it's adult.....in which case you have a serious problem".

    Interesting to contrast 2011 to 1987. J.K. Rowlings had yet to publish her first Harry Potter novel back then.

    Of course, many of the more prominent media franchises of the last forty years derive from children's literature.

    I saw an article in USA Today which seemed to indicate that Harry Potter might overtake Star Wars (inspired by the Flash Gordon serials) in terms of domestic box office, per Box Office Mojo.

    While it does not appear that they adjusted matters for inflation or took foreign box office into consideration, they did come up with an interesting list of other successful franchises to compare Star Wars and Harry Potter with. The list included:

    Batman
    Shrek
    Spider-Man
    Pirates of the Caribbean (started as a theme park ride-yes, it started as a theme park ride)
    The Lord of the Rings (started with the Hobbit, and the Hobbitt received initial reviews as a children's book)

    Incidentally, none of these franchises have ever had R-rated entries. In fact, R-rated adventure films largely no longer have the prominence they had in the 1970's and 1980's (look at the reception of the Mamoa Conan film).

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

    "Collins later notes that his own Wild Dog ended up something more violent and serious than he anticipated. "I wanted to invent something that would make my financial life a lot more... luxurious. That potential is still there, but as usual I just followed my own natural story-telling bent and didn't pay any attention to what I should do for commercial reasons".

    Collins quite went against the grain here.

    http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/...ary-kurtz-wer/
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...chandiseDriven
    http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/toyetic
    http://simonwalters.wordpress.com/20...s-too-toyetic/
    http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/t...eID=2006690381
    Not too many people know about this but after the 'redonkulous' merchandising phenomenon that came out of the '89 Batman film, some bean-counting lawyer - with no connection whatsoever to the actual film department at WB - came up with what was known internally as the Batman Manifesto .
    It was basically a catalog of elements that must be included in any Batman films going forward. It had nothing to do with telling a story that'd put butts into seats. It was all about selling t-shirts, posters and action figures - basically anything they could slap Batman's name on.

    And it worked.

    Ever wonder why all the next films had at least two villains in them?
    Ever wonder why the vehicles had 'variants' within the same film (Batmobile/missle, etc.)?
    Ever wonder why, once Schumacher got the "keys to the car", that even B & R had multiple costumes in the same film?


    Batman Manifesto.

    Not too long ago, Schumacher even 'sort of' copped to it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Schumacher

    "On the DVD commentary, Schumacher has admitted that his movie disappointed fans of darker Batman adaptations, saying that the film was made intentionally marketable (or "toyetic") and kid-friendly. He claims to have been under heavy pressure from the studio to do so ; however, he admits full responsibility and, at one point, apologizes to any fans who were disappointed."
    Last edited by Enda8011; 11-06-2011 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Further info/observations

  3. #3
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    I should note that Collins has a point regarding 1989's Batman. I did not find it an enjoyable film, even as a preadolescent.

    The book Starring John Wayne as Genghis Khan singled out Keaton's casting as a terrible idea, especially since they tried to distance themselves from Adam West. You do that by casting someone who mostly back and still does make comedies? Same with the director, Tim Burton, who mostly does comedies, including a Pee-Wee Herman film (Paul Reubens even showed up in 1992 Batman Returns).

    As one person wrote "Keaton wasn't Bruce Wayne. He was a bumbling parody". "The Burton version was a clumsy, bumbling oaf. Which of course did not fit in with the overall tone of the movie, unlike the West version, which was consistent. He was a cardboard cut-out and a bumbling oaf. His mental "issues" were not developed properly."He couldn't even string together a coherent sentence.....! Or how about the "I'm Batman!" part? Or how about him not knowing which room in Wayne Manor he was in, or whether he'd ever eaten there before? It was absurd! .

    http://www.undermountain.org/monster...1169e0475385a2

    http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum....9#reply-758276

    I find this woman's review insightful.

    http://www.aycyas.com/batman.htm

    Also, the whole "thought of as an urban legend" idea does not square with an atrociously designed car with wings on it. (The Green Hornet's Black Beauty fits in better.)

    http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum....9#reply-758276

    Many people feel that the 1989 Tim Burton/Michael Keaton did not make it on its own merits, but on the brute force of the marketing.
    Last edited by Enda8011; 11-06-2011 at 02:15 PM. Reason: More info

  4. #4
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    http://www.bigshinyrobot.com/reviews/archives/34498

    Another Max Allan Collins interview

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