Character Deconstruction

[Vic Vega]

So, I just read The Defenders preview.

Doc Strange's been reduced to a somewhat washed up mystic, trolling for Grad Student booty.

If we are going to talk about deconstruction, Dr. Strange is exhibit A.

He hasn't been Sorcerer Supreme since World War Hulk.

There is nothing about Black Panther's current situation that is unique to him.

Not saying you have to like it, but its not like that character got singled out to be screwed.

Somebody upthread mentioned the Jen Walters She Hulk.

There is a LOT of this at Marvel.

[moneyspider]

So, I just read The Defenders preview.

Doc Strange's been reduced to a somewhat washed up mystic, trolling for Grad Student booty.

If we are going to talk about deconstruction, Dr. Strange is exhibit A.

He hasn't been Sorcerer Supreme since World War Hulk.

There is nothing about Black Panther's current situation that is unique to him.

Not saying you have to like it, but its not like that character got singled out to be screwed.

Somebody upthread mentioned the Jen Walters She Hulk.

There is a LOT of this at Marvel.

How many times have Dr. Strange and She-Hulk been depowered and watered down?

I'm asking this because I don't follow either character, so I have no idea how many times this has happened to them?

Black Panther has been depowered/lost his royal status so many times it feels like a re-run. Not only that, but T'Challa is nowhere near his wife, which pisses me off. This is the ONLY fictional black marriage at any comic company that I know of, and the only one in any kind of fiction that I can think of, and they are not even "together." I repeat: this pisses me off. It's like a slap in the face to me. Yet, Susan and Reed Richards always seem to be together.

No one is saying this never happens to other characters, but when it KEEPS happening to the same character over and over and over and over and over again, it becomes a problem, because it's nothing new, it's not innovative, it shows a complete lack of imagination on the parts of the writers and editorial, and it just turns a lot of long-term readers off.

Also, there is the racial aspect when it happens to T'Challa, because he has been depowered/treated like crap like a LOT of black characters in Marvel books.

[Mr MajestiK]

So, I just read The Defenders preview.

Kewl.

Doc Strange's been reduced to a somewhat washed up mystic, trolling for Grad Student booty.

At least he's getting booty. T'Challa's been separated from his wife before, during and (for the most part) after Doomwar by choice (which in itself is a totally ridiculous concept.)

If we are going to talk about deconstruction, Dr. Strange is exhibit A.

Yes, but he's now part of a team that gets to do battle with otherworldly forces of chaos. He also looks very cool with his new groovy threads and pornostache whilst T'Challa looks like a bargain basement Snake Eyes/Batman doing battle with non-entities and DD's cast offs in Hell's Kitchen.

He hasn't been Sorcerer Supreme since World War Hulk.

So what?

He's still the to-go-to guy whenever there's some mystical big bad to deal with and this was the case even when Dr Voodoo was around as the new Sorcerer Supreme who spent more time begging for forgiveness and crying like a bitch than actually banishing aforementioned mystical big bads.

There is nothing about Black Panther's current situation that is unique to him.

Is that so?

Name me any other character that's been separated from his wife for as long as T'Challa has been.

Not saying you have to like it, but its not like that character got singled out to be screwed.

That's your subjective opinion.

A legion of other posters/reviewers both on and off-line would disagree.

There is a LOT of this at Marvel.

That's their loss then and the fans of other characters who may be getting screwed over are more than welcome to fight their corners as much as some of us do for T'Challa.

[Umbra]

So, I just read The Defenders preview.

Doc Strange's been reduced to a somewhat washed up mystic, trolling for Grad Student booty.

If we are going to talk about deconstruction, Dr. Strange is exhibit A.

He hasn't been Sorcerer Supreme since World War Hulk.

There is nothing about Black Panther's current situation that is unique to him.

Not saying you have to like it, but its not like that character got singled out to be screwed.

Somebody upthread mentioned the Jen Walters She Hulk.

There is a LOT of this at Marvel.

Strange really isn't a good example. He was uber powerful before, now he is still powerful...still the foremost authority on mysticism, the occult and magic. His Martial Arts is going to be focused on...a mix of magic and martial arts...remember that? Now I see why T'challa didn't get to use it...Strange is. He's a member of two teams...which are involved in marvel's meta plot.

It's hardly the same. Instead if snapping his finger and beating something...he is going to kick their tail. Using what T'challa was suppose to during Doomwar.

She-hulk has been fraked over big time...that I agree. Bringing that up changes nothing. Still, none of them systematically watered down like Black Panther in my opinion. This scenario has occurred before...

Strange hasn't really been depowered. That's like saying Super Boy Prime being pushed to Superman levels is really significant.

In fact, Strange is a character much like that. T'challa isn't...he isn't like superman...and there is zero reason to continue de-powering him...like he has to be written or treated like he's Superman...So he has to be written down.

[Huthaifa]

Have to say that Doc Strange is nowhere near as powerful as he wants was. He has been reduced to illusion and protection spells.His downgrade is noticeable to me.

[Umbra]

Kewl.



At least he's getting booty. T'Challa's been separated from his wife before, during and (for the most part) after Doomwar by choice (which in itself is a totally ridiculous concept.)



Yes, but he's now part of a team that gets to do battle with otherworldly forces of chaos. He also looks very cool with his new groovy threads and pornostache whilst T'Challa looks like a bargain basement Snake Eyes/Batman doing battle with non-entities and DD's cast offs in Hell's Kitchen.



So what?

He's still the to-go-to guy whenever there's some mystical big bad to deal with and this was the case even when Dr Voodoo was around as the new Sorcerer Supreme who spent more time begging for forgiveness and crying like a bitch than actually banishing aforementioned mystical big bads.



Is that so?

Name me any other character that's been separated from his wife for as long as T'Challa has been.



That's your subjective opinion.

A legion of other posters/reviewers both on and off-line would disagree.



That's their loss then and the fans of other characters who may be getting screwed over are more than welcome to fight their corners as much as some of us do for T'Challa.

agreed...great points.
People keep bringing up Strange and It's a poor example...dude is doing the magical kung fu that Tchalla was denied to use...making more and sense.

[Umbra]

Have Matt Fraction sign it so it can be canon

Have to say that Doc Strange is nowhere near as powerful as he wants was. He has been reduced to illusion and protection spells.His downgrade is noticeable to me.

Umm not according to Fraction. Sorry.

[Huthaifa]

Umm not according to Fraction. Sorry.

I havent read the Defender preview yet. I am on the ropes on whether to buy it or not. I dont like reading previews of books that I am going to buy.Funny, I am listening to Fraction right now on Wordballoon. He is talking about how much people hate him.

[Mr MajestiK]

Strange really isn't a good example. He was uber powerful before, now he is still powerful...still the foremost authority on mysticism, the occult and magic. His Martial Arts is going to be focused on...a mix of magic and martial arts...remember that? Now I see why T'challa didn't get to use it...Strange is. He's a member of two teams...which are involved in marvel's meta plot.

It's hardly the same. Instead if snapping his finger and beating something...he is going to kick their tail. Using what T'challa was suppose to during Doomwar.

She-hulk has been fraked over big time...that I agree. Bringing that up changes nothing. Still, none of them systematically watered down like Black Panther in my opinion. This scenario has occurred before...

Strange hasn't really been depowered. That's like saying Super Boy Prime being pushed to Superman levels is really significant.

In fact, Strange is a character much like that. T'challa isn't...he isn't like superman...and there is zero reason to continue de-powering him...like he has to be written or treated like he's Superman...So he has to be written down.

One of the key things that I've noticed is that now (at least on two separate occasions) innovations and power up ugrades/enhancements that were first launched (and then abandoned or ignored) within Black Panther related books or story lines have now been co-opted and launched within the books of other characters.

The Nowhere Room and T'Challa's newly developed synthesis of mysticism enhanced martial arts were both created during Doomwar (even though the latter never saw usage in that accursed event) but neither have seen the light of day in the aftermath of Doomwar only to eventually get used in Avengers Academy (Pym's Dimensional Doorways) and now in Fraction's Defenders where Strange gets flex Kung Fu infused with mysticism.

marvel seems to have no problem allowing T'Challa to get robbed of pre-existing abilities, powers and technology as well as new innovations to then pass said innovations on to other characters.

How in the hell is any of that fair?

And why are some so willing to make excuses for Marvel's blatant bias and double standards that always seem to leave T'Challa short changed?

[Mr MajestiK]

I havent read the Defender preview yet. I am on the ropes on whether to buy it or not. I dont like reading previews of books that I am going to buy.Funny, I am listening to Fraction right now on Wordballoon. He is talking about how much people hate him.

You got a link to that my bro?

[Umbra]

The guys making excuses, using Strange need to stop. If you can't see the difference...something is wrong.

Like MM pointed out...even when Voodoo was DD...Strange was still the point man.

Dude is a character that could end and fight on his own. If Tchalla had superman's powers...and the moved him down from there I would say nothing. That is not the case.

[Mr MajestiK]

The guys making excuses, using Strange need to stop. If you can't see the difference...something is wrong.

Like MM pointed out...even when Voodoo was DD...Strange was still the point man.

Dude is a character that could end and fight on his own. If Tchalla had superman's powers...and the moved him down from there I would say nothing. That is not the case.

I'm beginning to think that where T'Challa is concerned some people just seem to be so comfortable ignoring the blatant double standard that the character has always suffered under in comparison to other characters.

It's getting beyond ridiculous now.

[Huthaifa]

You got a link to that my bro?

http://wordballoon.com

[Umbra]

I think Pym had the Doorways first...but that shouldn't Stop bp from having them. It would solve the idiotic excuse they use about Wakanda, Tchalla and Storm.

[Mr MajestiK]

http://wordballoon.com

Much appreciated my friend.