War Games

[hanotsri]

Now we got a wuss like Jeremiah Arkham wearing the mask... As far as I'm concerned Black Mask is still dead.

Apparently so does Tony Daniel, which is unusual considering he wrote the Black Mask stories with Jeremiah Arkham when Dick was Batman. Yet somehow, he's not in 'Tec.

Anyhow, I actually liked War Games. I thought it was an interesting story despite it being full of off characterizations. I was a bit annoyed about the Black Mask build as well though only to have him killed by Selina (does Bruce even know she did this?).

Michael

[liopleurodon]

I bought the trades to read some back story for Steph, and I was shocked, I mean SHOCKED at how bad it was. <-- that was literally my face while reading this whole thing.

Some of the art is mind-bogglingly amateurish, and the plot made no sense. Batman was a dick to everyone, and he did not really learn much from the whole thing. Steph "died" for no reason, and Black Mask was offed a while after, so what was the point of it all?

Also, Hush showed up once in a while for no good reason.

It really was awful. Do not waste your time, just read the Wikipedia synopsis.

[shark]

I bought the trades to read some back story for Steph, and I was shocked, I mean SHOCKED at how bad it was. <-- that was literally my face while reading this whole thing.

Some of the art is mind-bogglingly amateurish, and the plot made no sense. Batman was a dick to everyone, and he did not really learn much from the whole thing. Steph "died" for no reason, and Black Mask was offed a while after, so what was the point of it all?

Also, Hush showed up once in a while for no good reason.

It really was awful. Do not waste your time, just read the Wikipedia synopsis.

And don't forget about the gratituous and sexualized torture of a teenage girl.

[Statham]

And don't forget about the gratituous and sexualized torture of a teenage girl.

This. I don't really care too much about the other events in War Games - the standard gang war idea is never overplayed in a place like Gotham where everyone from Joker to Killer Moth has gang members, and I didn't mind Black Mask being put in charge of Gotham's underworld despite him being a complete putz and not even being used that much after the event, but I absolutely loathed the treatment of Steph. We basically had issue after issue of her being tortured or beaten or shot whilst the other stuff was going on. And it was disgusting and utterly unnecessary in showing how much of a badass Black Mask was.

I think the worst part was, a few months to a year back, I was either on here or somewhere similar, and saw someone saying that what happened to Steph wasn't as bad as what happened to Cass Cain on the basis that Steph was retconned to being still alive and smuggled out to Africa; And yet, those issues still happened. That sickening and disgustingly portrayed torture still went on - The only change is that Steph was suddenly badass enough to endure it and survive, and didn't die. And pseudo-dragon lady kinda-racist portrayal or not, Cass never got tortured and killed or portrayed to be a complete idiot desperate for acceptance from a Batman who, at the time, didn't deserve it.

[ffritts]

I actually enjoyed the story despite Leslie's attempt to stop Bruce, which btw was later retconned in war crimes(?).

For me reading as a whole War- drums, games, and crimes it was good. I am also a reader that doesn't need to be shown everything on panel.

I say pick it up on ebay and enjoy.

[shark]

This. I don't really care too much about the other events in War Games - the standard gang war idea is never overplayed in a place like Gotham where everyone from Joker to Killer Moth has gang members, and I didn't mind Black Mask being put in charge of Gotham's underworld despite him being a complete putz and not even being used that much after the event, but I absolutely loathed the treatment of Steph. We basically had issue after issue of her being tortured or beaten or shot whilst the other stuff was going on. And it was disgusting and utterly unnecessary in showing how much of a badass Black Mask was.

I think the worst part was, a few months to a year back, I was either on here or somewhere similar, and saw someone saying that what happened to Steph wasn't as bad as what happened to Cass Cain on the basis that Steph was retconned to being still alive and smuggled out to Africa; And yet, those issues still happened. That sickening and disgustingly portrayed torture still went on - The only change is that Steph was suddenly badass enough to endure it and survive, and didn't die. And pseudo-dragon lady kinda-racist portrayal or not, Cass never got tortured and killed or portrayed to be a complete idiot desperate for acceptance from a Batman who, at the time, didn't deserve it.

At least they retconned it to Cass being brainwashed.

Nobody retconned Steph starting a gang war and getting people killed because she wanted Batman's approval.

[Statham]

I actually enjoyed the story despite Leslie's attempt to stop Bruce, which btw was later retconned in war crimes(?).

For me reading as a whole War- drums, games, and crimes it was good. I am also a reader that doesn't need to be shown everything on panel.

I say pick it up on ebay and enjoy.

Actually, it was War Crimes that declared Leslie had denied Steph treatment and let her die, I believe. All to prove a point to Batman.

[ffritts]

its been a while since I read them... The Robin/Spoiler special fixed it did it not (been a while)?

[Xenith]

Anyhow, I actually liked War Games. I thought it was an interesting story despite it being full of off characterizations. I was a bit annoyed about the Black Mask build as well though only to have him killed by Selina (does Bruce even know she did this?).

Yeah it's kind of annoying how often they keep having a new big crime boss unite the Gotham underworld and gain cred by taking down a few big names...and then within a year at most they are either dead or relegated to obscurity to never be heard from again:

Black Mask, Great White Shark, Tobias Whale, Johny Stitches, Black Mask #2....pretty much anyone since Carmine Falcone.

Seems like a waste...

===================

I do think parts of War Games were good...I liked the Robin story, and Nightwing was not bad. Just have to completely ignore the beginning not only because of how bad it made Steph look but because of how dumb it made Bruce look...I mean beyond the implausability and massive bloodshed involved in the whole plan....where was it that Steph even found it? Did he just have it lying around in the Batcave? Was it on the Batcomputer with an obvious password like "crimealley" or "deadparents"? Eeeek. The end was equally terrible.

You can also definitely ignore War Crimes...since every writer after apparently did

(The exception being Gotham Underground where it seems like Penguin had to have seen Arthur Brown's broadcast to recognize Steph without her costume in order to hand pick her out of the crowd and giver her the new Spoiler equipment figuring she's another potential Jason Todd who would hold a grudge against the Bat Family for letting her "die". )

[Statham]

its been a while since I read them... The Robin/Spoiler special fixed it did it not (been a while)?

Well, yes. It got fixed, and Steph didn't die, but that's kind of beside the point, really. That they even put such a torture sequence together and then decided to foist such characterisation on Leslie spoke volumes about the people in charge of the books at the time. Those events in those books basically happened until Chuck Dixon decided to set things straight.

The only thing, really, that War Games has going for it are the sweet covers to the collected editions, by James Jean. War Crimes doesn't even have that.

[Glaucus]

Apparently so does Tony Daniel, which is unusual considering he wrote the Black Mask stories with Jeremiah Arkham when Dick was Batman. Yet somehow, he's not in 'Tec.

Anyhow, I actually liked War Games. I thought it was an interesting story despite it being full of off characterizations. I was a bit annoyed about the Black Mask build as well though only to have him killed by Selina (does Bruce even know she did this?).

Michael

Yes
Bruce knows that Selina killed Black Mask.
Selina told Bruce that she killed Black Mask, and Bruce already knew before he told her. He told Selina that he didn't turn her in because it wouldn't be justice. He didn't judge her. He told her that he believed that in a twisted way, she was protecting the innocent. It was during that talk that she asked Bruce to help her give up her daughter, Helena up for adoption.

All of this was in Brubaker's Catwoman issue #72


I am surprised that she didn't kill him sooner for making her sister,Maggie eat her husband's eyeballs which led her to be locked up in a psychiatric institution.

[ArnoldoAAD]

i think the issue that hurts the most about War Games was that Steph had the potential to be one if not the best Robin ever and it was just a false run

[ffritts]

i think the issue that hurts the most about War Games was that Steph had the potential to be one if not the best Robin ever and it was just a false run

It seems thats the story of her "life"

[mex4173]

And there's Batman thinking, "Stephanie will do what I say, give up crime fighting and live a normal, boring life." You know just like Dick didn't, or Jason or Tim or Barbara or Jean-Paul or Jim Gordon or Helena or Selina (and every villain ever) OR THOSE OTHER TIMES I TOLD HER TO QUIT. Just like Jason, she won't do anything rash. And just like Jean-Paul she will be calm, rational and collected. Oh, and I really hope Tim never told her the story about helping me against Scarecrow despite my orders, that would be embarrassing.

He shows less concern for her than he would for the Joker...

It's bizarre. It's not that he thinks he knows best he just doesn't seem to care.

[Blue_Beetle]

I havn't read it in a while, don't think I will be any time soon.

It was my first event in comics, and when I was a youngin' I liked stories with lots of villains. This story had like every bat villain and even as a youngster I thought it was boring.