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  1. #31
    RecessionBornSuperVillain deathcry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaronK View Post
    If you're referring to the $.50 kickback retailers are supposed to get for each digital use (that's the only incentive I remember hearing about), I personally think it smacks of Marvel trying to placate retailers and keep them from doing what Brian is doing, or opening the bags and taking the download codes out - like some retailers have said they plan to do. Sure it's nice for the retailer now (though I don't totally understand how Marvel will know where a person got their comic and it seems like the reader would have to include this information...hopefully it HAS to be included to get the download if that's the case), but what happens to the retailer if that reader does decide to go all digital? I'm sure they won't continue to receive a kickback on everything that customer buys directly from Marvel from then on. That wouldn't make that $.50 worth much to me.
    Yea I couldn't remember what I actually read, but I found this on icv2..
    Consumers who download the free copies will be able to identify the store where they purchased the print copy, which will entitle the retailer to a $.50 bounty, credited through Diamond Comic Distributors.
    Marvel also plans to use the download program to support retailers in other ways, including e-mail blasts to consenting download consumers to let them know when the second issue is available in-store. Marvel is also developing several additional programs, including bounties for additional purchases made by customers that identify a retailer as the place they bought the initial book; couponing to digital customers to support in-store sales; and e-mails to digital customers to support in-store events.
    I'm not sure I would say "smacks of Marvel trying to placate retailers", only because that sounds negative, but yes I think to make it work at all, you have to have the retailers not only support, but get something from it. So yes they have to give the retailers something also.
    As to retailers taking out the codes.... I agree with what lemurion said... I would be extremely annoyed at that retailer... The codes are for the person paying for the book. I would not buy from that person again. What Brian is doing, thats his choice, and I have no issue with him running his business the way he wants.
    And again if the buyer decides to go all digital?? That would probably happen anyway. Its a significant enough change to how you read that it won't be a spur of the moment decision. Some people will move in this direction ANYWAY. Some won't until they are forced to, which probably won't happen in our lifetimes, unless marvel and dc find it economical to do. This isn't going to hasten the switch. Cheaper tablets would. marvel is probably banking on a certain percentage to redeem the codes. They don't make a lot of (any) money of the book if they are paying $.50 bounties.
    I am sure the program will need work. But at least its something. Which brings us to...

    Quote Originally Posted by DaronK View Post
    And though this part is a little off topic, what you say here has me thinking about what happens if it's NOT successful. Seeing as how this was marketed as a way to bring more "value" to their $3.99 books, what happens if most readers don't find the value and redeem the code? Are they going to give us something else, or just say screw it we tried to make you happy, enjoy your 20 page $3.99 comic?
    Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Obviously they are hearing some of the cries of people about $3.99 books, and are trying something. I doubt those cries will die down if this fails.

  2. #32
    RecessionBornSuperVillain deathcry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    Before I start, I should mention that I'm currently almost entirely digital, so I'm coming at this in part as a general consumer, and in part as someone who buys comics in digital format.



    If a store did this I would stop dealing with them immediately and never buy anything from them ever again. It's the whole GameStop/Deus Ex scenario all over again. If that code's supposed to be included with the book I am paying for, I want it.

    On the other hand, if they simply choose not to sell it on the racks, that's their decision and I'm fine with that. It's their store, and they get to choose what they carry. Just don't sell me something that's not as advertised because you took the bonus content out.

    As for Marvel's inclusion of "free" digital codes with the standard price comic; as a digital customer, I'm p****d. I've spent over $120 on digital comics since the start of September, and here's Marvel telling me they're not worth anything. At least DC's combo pack is explicitly stating that the digital copy has value by making it clear that the combination of print+digital is worth more than either alone.

    I still think that price-matching digital to print is overcharging for digital (though I can see the arguments for it even though I don't agree with them entirely) but that's not the same as saying they should be free.

    As for poly-bags - I hate them with a passion.
    Not sure I understand why you think giving away free books, means they aren't worth anything. They are using it as an incentive/bonus. do you not buy any $0.99 books when they are on sale because they are worth less than the regularly priced books? To me it's trying to give people something extra. some will want, some won't. If you buy only digital it doesn't effect you... but it does lead to your other point. ... I agree with you that digital pricing is out of whack right now. Even more so with marvel. I haven't seem them drop prices on new material yet. At least DC drops a $1 off after a month. Not sure what marvels timeline is. $3.99 seems even more painful for a digital version that is tied to a specific reader.

  3. #33
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathcry View Post
    Not sure I understand why you think giving away free books, means they aren't worth anything. They are using it as an incentive/bonus. do you not buy any $0.99 books when they are on sale because they are worth less than the regularly priced books? To me it's trying to give people something extra. some will want, some won't. If you buy only digital it doesn't effect you... but it does lead to your other point. ... I agree with you that digital pricing is out of whack right now. Even more so with marvel. I haven't seem them drop prices on new material yet. At least DC drops a $1 off after a month. Not sure what marvels timeline is. $3.99 seems even more painful for a digital version that is tied to a specific reader.
    The problem is that Marvel has stated that if this works for Avenging Spider-Man they want to start doing this for all their $3.99 books. If they follow through with this plan they're telling us that digital is worth so little to us that even though they're notorious penny-pinchers they're giving digital copies away with every print copy - but those of us who prefer to buy digital have to pay full pop for JUST the digital. As someone who buys digital, that's a kick in the teeth.

    As to new material not dropping in price the way DC does after a month: there's a reason I've bought about 150 DC books on ComiXology and only 6 from Marvel.

    I don't feel bad about taking advantage of the regular freebies or the $0.99 sales on ComiXology - but being asked to pay four bucks for something that a person who bought the paper comic would get for free does rankle. At least with DC's Justilce League combo pack I can pay $5 for both, $4 for print, or (after a month) $3 for digital. That way I don't feel like I'm being punished for preferring digital like with Marvel.

    (As for my preference for digital? I don't like how modern coloring looks on paper as opposed to a screen. Digital colors look better on screen - older coloring looks better on paper. I still think my original floppies of the Great Darkness Saga look generally better than the recoloring in the Deluxe Hardcover.)
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    The problem is that Marvel has stated that if this works for Avenging Spider-Man they want to start doing this for all their $3.99 books. If they follow through with this plan they're telling us that digital is worth so little to us that even though they're notorious penny-pinchers they're giving digital copies away with every print copy - but those of us who prefer to buy digital have to pay full pop for JUST the digital. As someone who buys digital, that's a kick in the teeth.
    I don't recall Marvel saying that they would do this for all $3.99 books, just that they would do it for more books.

    I've not been a fan of Marvel's business practices of late. Trade in's for DC covers, Breevort's constant snarkyness, etc. But I don't take this as foul play from Marvel.

    Look, like it or not digital is the future. Maybe 10 years maybe, 20 years but it's going that way. Paper comics will be an even smaller niche in the future than it is now more than likely. Marvel is a part of a huge company that has millions of shareholders and needs to make a profit. So they will always look out for their own best interest.

    Also I think this is a way to placate people on books that aren't going to "Hold the line at $2.99." By charging $3.99 for a 20-22 page story, you are essentially paying $2.99 plus $1.00 for the digital, just in one package.

    As for the person that mentioned Whacker as being a shill, of course he is. But he seemed to be pretty up front about stuff, at least in the panel.

    I also think that a portion of this effort is to gain demographic data on comic users. They have it, I assume, for straight digital, but getting this for a print/digital combo might tell them something more useful. Who knows.

    I also don't want people to come away with this thinking I'm some shill for Marvel or love digital and screw print. I'll be the one buying Uncanny X-Men until the presses stop running. Digital for me is a way to get me to read books that I'm not interested in collecting but would like to read at a lower price point. Marvel as a company would get me to buy more titles overall if they had a $0.99 digital price point. But the majority would still be print even at that cost. Granted if they didn't flood the market with 90 titles every month and make a franchise out of every property, another pet peave, then I would buy many more titles in print also.

  5. #35
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    Talking personally?

    I'm buying all my DC books digital, as I really haven't room in the house for more comics. If there was a digital code in the DC books for a digital copy, I'd buy them in the shop, then give away the issues.*

    It means I don't have to choose between having the physical artifact (and its intrinsic merits) and the digital artifact (and its own, separate merits).

    As a consumer, digital codes in issues would be my preferred buying format.

    Talking personally.

    KG

    *Or, at least, the issues I don't want to have physically.

  6. #36
    Senior Member DaronK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroesmask View Post
    I don't recall Marvel saying that they would do this for all $3.99 books, just that they would do it for more books.
    I'm sure someone else can provide a link, but I'm pretty sure I remember the original announcement saying that they were testing with the new Spidey book, but that if it was successful they were going to implement it on all of their $3.99 books. It also said, while they would be polybagged to start, they would be looking for alternative way to package the codes.

  7. #37
    ... with the High Command Lemurion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroesmask View Post
    I don't recall Marvel saying that they would do this for all $3.99 books, just that they would do it for more books.

    I've not been a fan of Marvel's business practices of late. Trade in's for DC covers, Breevort's constant snarkyness, etc. But I don't take this as foul play from Marvel.

    Look, like it or not digital is the future. Maybe 10 years maybe, 20 years but it's going that way. Paper comics will be an even smaller niche in the future than it is now more than likely. Marvel is a part of a huge company that has millions of shareholders and needs to make a profit. So they will always look out for their own best interest.

    Also I think this is a way to placate people on books that aren't going to "Hold the line at $2.99." By charging $3.99 for a 20-22 page story, you are essentially paying $2.99 plus $1.00 for the digital, just in one package.

    As for the person that mentioned Whacker as being a shill, of course he is. But he seemed to be pretty up front about stuff, at least in the panel.

    I also think that a portion of this effort is to gain demographic data on comic users. They have it, I assume, for straight digital, but getting this for a print/digital combo might tell them something more useful. Who knows.

    I also don't want people to come away with this thinking I'm some shill for Marvel or love digital and screw print. I'll be the one buying Uncanny X-Men until the presses stop running. Digital for me is a way to get me to read books that I'm not interested in collecting but would like to read at a lower price point. Marvel as a company would get me to buy more titles overall if they had a $0.99 digital price point. But the majority would still be print even at that cost. Granted if they didn't flood the market with 90 titles every month and make a franchise out of every property, another pet peave, then I would buy many more titles in print also.
    The problem for me is not the $3.99 price for print + digital, I do like the format and think that's a fair price. (Especially coming from Marvel.) I don't like polybags, but that can be worked around in future.

    What I don't like is that Marvel will also be charging $3.99 for digital alone. That's the sticking point for me.
    Anyone who thinks DC is bringing back the Silver Age doesn't know what the Silver Age is.

    There is no such word as "persay," it's per se, two words, from the Latin.

  8. #38
    Junior Member Drew Melbourne's Avatar
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    We're bound to get a lot of awkward situations like this over the next 5 to 10 years, but the future is clearly digital. The real question isn't "How have the comic book companies pissed off the comic shops this week?" It's "What are the comic shops doing to reinvent their business model so that they can survive for the next next 5, 10, or 20 years?"

    Everything else is just deck chairs...

  9. #39
    Rather Large Member khuxford's Avatar
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    With the fact that DC Comics GNs are are going to be available on all Kindle-app devices (which includes non-Amazon devices), the exclusivity at play here is much more like one of distribution. That'd be like if a comic book company were stupid enough to go exclusive with one physical distributor, which might create a near monopoly and...oh.

  10. #40
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    So, I sold out of 175 JL #1 plus the incentive variants and still have 10 out of 25 digital plus and when I sell 91 out of 100 JL #2 and 9 out of 20 digital plus copies in one week, I'd say that digital future is a long, long way off.

    I initially reacted like Mr. Hibbs, but decided that digital is honestly so meaningless to the vast majority of our customers that it really wasn't worth a fuss. Anyone who buys comics knows full well that digital is available because the morons who publish the comics will only advertise to the people who buy the comics in the first place. They've tried, whether intentionally or not, to steal our customers since the whole thing started and it hasn't made a difference yet. People buy comics in whatever format because they like them and think they are worth buying. Most of the digital boosters ONLY want cheap comics, not because they don't have the money, but because they don't feel the product is worth the price asked. If crap is under a buck per download, you guys still won't pay it. Nobody complains about paying $3 for a comic they like.

  11. #41
    Rather Large Member khuxford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QCCBob View Post
    So, I sold out of 175 JL #1 plus the incentive variants and still have 10 out of 25 digital plus and when I sell 91 out of 100 JL #2 and 9 out of 20 digital plus copies in one week, I'd say that digital future is a long, long way off.

    I initially reacted like Mr. Hibbs, but decided that digital is honestly so meaningless to the vast majority of our customers that it really wasn't worth a fuss. Anyone who buys comics knows full well that digital is available because the morons who publish the comics will only advertise to the people who buy the comics in the first place. They've tried, whether intentionally or not, to steal our customers since the whole thing started and it hasn't made a difference yet. People buy comics in whatever format because they like them and think they are worth buying. Most of the digital boosters ONLY want cheap comics, not because they don't have the money, but because they don't feel the product is worth the price asked. If crap is under a buck per download, you guys still won't pay it. Nobody complains about paying $3 for a comic they like.
    Do you really think you can gauge interest in digital by how many folks are willing to pay a dollar more to get both? That doesn't make much sense to me. Those who WANT to pay for digital will save the dollar & just buy it straight up. The fear here is that, with it costing nothing, folks who haven't tried digital will...and realize they are willing to switch, especially with the occasional deal Marvel directly emails them about.

  12. #42
    Read Savage Dragon Hanzo the Razor's Avatar
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    Avenging Spider-Man #1 Gets Orders Of Over 100,000 As Marvel Extends Free Digital Comics Download Codes

    Marvel has announced they will continue the free download of digital copies of Avenging Spider-Man by Zeb Wells and Joe Madureira through the first arc to issue three. And with the first issue topping six figures in orders from comic store retailers, we may be about to see how well the ComiXOlogy servers will cope with a lot of downloads in a short period of time…
    http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/10/...ownload-codes/

  13. #43
    Brian is ainm dom. :) Nova2814.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanzo the Razor View Post
    And here's a link to the full press release - http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=35136.

    As I've said before, I like the idea of the free digital copy, but I can understand why some would be concerned. My biggest concern is that Marvel will move all the $2.99 books to $3.99 and justify it by including a digital copy. I don't think they will though, not straight away anyway. I can definitely understand Brian's concerns, particularly about the solicit info changing so often.

    However, with most of Marvel's books ($2.99 AND $3.99) being cut back to 20 pages with no warning, it's nice to see something being done to add value back in. I know it won't be everyone's idea of value, but maybe Marvel are looking at other initiatives.

    It'll be interesting to see if/when the initiative will be rolled out to other $3.99 titles.
    My comic collection. Go on, have a look. You know you want to .

  14. #44
    Senior Member Arvandor's Avatar
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    I like the way Brian complains about B&N withdrawing their stock of graphic novels in protest against DC, then does the EXACT same thing with Avenging Spiderman. The hypocrisy is strong with this one.
    virtue untested is innocence.
    When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember it is still an evil.

  15. #45
    Junior Member MikeCr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arvandor View Post
    I like the way Brian complains about B&N withdrawing their stock of graphic novels in protest against DC, then does the EXACT same thing with Avenging Spiderman. The hypocrisy is strong with this one.
    He's not complaining; he's applauding them. He's drawing a parallel with his decision.

    The reading comprehension is NOT strong with this one.
    ... and yet here I am arguing on the interwebs.

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