Market Share: Marvel vs. DC

[carabas]

Arrrgh! I just don't get it. WTF? How could anyone drop JiM after reading it? I just can't wrap my brain around it.

It's the logical effect of raising your prices to insane levelsand then start to double-ship a bunch of books: everything that is not a core title suffers, no matter how good it is.

[USERNAME TAKEN]

It's the logical effect of raising your prices to insane levelsand then start to double-ship a bunch of books: everything that is not a core title suffers, no matter how good it is.

JIM is $2.99...

..and even before double shipping kicked in, JIM was losing sales so that clearly isn't the reason for it.

I think the reason for JIMs low sales is:

1. It doesn't feature a popular character.
2. It's not in anyway a superhero title and barely resembles anything that most people come to expect from Marvel (Marvel has always been the home of the superhero).

If Marvel had a Vertigo type imprint and JIM was in there, it might do better. But then again, looking at Vertigo's current sales...i think not.

[Lemurion]

JIM is $2.99...

..and even before double shipping kicked in, JIM was losing sales so that clearly isn't the reason for it.

I think the reason for JIMs low sales is:

1. It doesn't feature a popular character.
2. It's not in anyway a superhero title and barely resembles anything that most people come to expect from Marvel (Marvel has always been the home of the superhero).

If Marvel had a Vertigo type imprint and JIM was in there, it might do better. But then again, looking at Vertigo's current sales...i think not.

JIM may have started losing sales before the double-shipping came in, but not before Marvel started shifting most of the core books to $3.99. As the core books went up, people had to choose between spending more money (not always an option), dropping a core book, or dropping a fringe book such as JIM. More often than not, those dropping books dropped fringe rather than core books.

While I do think the factors you mentioned put a fairly low cap on JIM's ceiling - I don't think they were the main factors in its continued drop in sales. Without double-shipping and the plethora of $3.99 books I think it would have had a better chance of stabilizing, even if sales never got too high.

Do I think double-shipping and competition from $3.99 books are the only reasons for JIM's low sales? No. But to deny they were major factors is to ignore basic economics and human nature.

[Nova2814.1]

I'm not sure of the $3.99 price point had as big an impact as we might initially think. When JiM was launched last year, most of Marvel's core books had already moved to the $3.99 price point: Avengers, Cap, Uncanny X-Men, Thor, Spider-Man, etc, were already $3.99.

New ongoings in 2011 might have an impact, but from memory, about half of them are at $2.99 and the other half were at $3.99.

From looking at Spaced's graph, the biggest drop off in orders was in the early issues, which is when it would have been in the midst of Fear Itself. That's usually a difficult period for retailers to determine a series natural sales level, so they probably kept adjusting orders to find the right balance. Orders for the early issues wouldn't have been based on "true" readership, only what retailers thought/hoped would sell. And it's also possible that the early issues had an element of overshipping or larger than normal discounts, thereby inflating the true level of orders.

[USERNAME TAKEN]

I'm not sure of the $3.99 price point had as big an impact as we might initially think. When JiM was launched last year, most of Marvel's core books had already moved to the $3.99 price point: Avengers, Cap, Uncanny X-Men, Thor, Spider-Man, etc, were already $3.99.

New ongoings in 2011 might have an impact, but from memory, about half of them are at $2.99 and the other half were at $3.99.

From looking at Spaced's graph, the biggest drop off in orders was in the early issues, which is when it would have been in the midst of Fear Itself. That's usually a difficult period for retailers to determine a series natural sales level, so they probably kept adjusting orders to find the right balance. Orders for the early issues wouldn't have been based on "true" readership, only what retailers thought/hoped would sell. And it's also possible that the early issues had an element of overshipping or larger than normal discounts, thereby inflating the true level of orders.

My points exactly.

The general assertion that double shipping and price affected JIMs sales doesn't hold when we closely scrutinize the sales figures.

JIM was launched looooooong after most of Marvel's on-goings had moved to $3.99.

The title's sales is stabilizing smack in the middle of the double shipping (JIM has double shipped a couple of times too though).

[carabas]

JIM was launched looooooong after most of Marvel's on-goings had moved to $3.99.

In the 1960s... But the current run was started mid last year, ages after prices went bananas on most of the core books.

[Hulk_Is]

It's the logical effect of raising your prices to insane levelsand then start to double-ship a bunch of books: everything that is not a core title suffers, no matter how good it is.

All of this - untrue.

[Lemurion]

All of this - untrue.

If you're right, and neither double-shipping nor increased prices had a negative effect on the sales of non-core titles, Marvel should have seen an increase in sales volume proportionate to the increases in price and shipping frequency: they haven't.

I don't think either price increases or double-shipping are solely responsible for the drop in sales of Marvel's non-core titles. (I also think the increase in core titles has also had an effect.) However, I do think they have had an effect, and that the effect has been greater on the non-core titles than the core books.

It's too complex a market to blame everything on one or two factors, but the evidence is pretty clear that Marvel would rather focus on getting people to buy two copies of any given X-Vengers book in a month rather than one X-Vengers book plus a non-franchise book. Focusing on more of the product your existing market likes most rather than offering a greater variety of product is a viable and relatively low-risk strategy.

[carabas]

(I also think the increase in core titles has also had an effect.)

Yeah, that's definitely a big factor too.

[Hulk_Is]

Yeah, that's definitely a big factor too.

It's not. Nice try.

Listen folks. Journey Into Mystery had might as well not be a Marvel book. 'Nuff said.

[USERNAME TAKEN]

It's not. Nice try.

Listen folks. Journey Into Mystery had might as well not be a Marvel book. 'Nuff said.

My point exactly.

Even if Marvel were to suddenly slash their publishing schedule to five titles, I seriously doubt the folks that buy Avengers, Fantastic Four and X-men will suddenly flock to JIM.

[Rheged]

It's not. Nice try.

Listen folks. Journey Into Mystery had might as well not be a Marvel book. 'Nuff said.

JiM is most definitely a Marvel book, just like Thor. It features Marvel characters. It's not a typical superhero book, but it's firmly set in the Marvel Universe.

My point exactly.

Even if Marvel were to suddenly slash their publishing schedule to five titles, I seriously doubt the folks that buy Avengers, Fantastic Four and X-men will suddenly flock to JIM.

If Marvel only put out five titles, I'm sure you'd see a substantial increase in sales on JiM.

You're acting like it's a simple black and white situation with clear cut direct correlation. It's more about the whole market that Marvel has created with these business moves of double shipping and expanding the 'core titles.' The very phrase 'core titles' tells you how Marvel and fans see JiM and other 'non-core' titles, i.e. the first to be dropped if personal budgets demand it.

[Hulk_Is]

My point exactly.

Even if Marvel were to suddenly slash their publishing schedule to five titles, I seriously doubt the folks that buy Avengers, Fantastic Four and X-men will suddenly flock to JIM.

Yes. Now I just wish that JIM's readers could understand that. Some things just weren't meant to last. Just like Gillen's Thor got pulled out from under readers' noses, so must JIM.

[Rheged]

Yes. Now I just wish that JIM's readers could understand that. Some things just weren't meant to last. Just like Gillen's Thor got pulled out from under readers' noses, so must JIM.

Gillen's Thor did not get pulled. It was a limited engagement, from the beginning. That's not the case with JiM.

[Hulk_Is]

Gillen's Thor did not get pulled. It was a limited engagement, from the beginning. That's not the case with JiM.

Maybe JIM should be a limited engagement. There are not too many readers who'd make this book a regular pull, but maybe if they saw an end in sight (besides looming cancellation) they'd stick to it.