Is the problem a lack of energy, rather than quality?

[Desaad]

With the launch of DC's hugely successful 52 initiative, there has been a lot of hand wringing and airing of discontentment in regards to Marvel, and Marvel's output. It generally consists of vague criticisms about the (low) quality of books Marvel puts out.

And, yeah, Marvel puts out a lot of really sub par books. Probably more than they should.

But as gets pointed out, they also put out a lot of great books, a lot of really satisfying books, both long running and new. Hickman's FF, Brubaker's Cap, Remender's X Force, gillen's Journey into Mystery, Parker's everything, etc.

But yet still, it's hard not to feel this general...malaise, that has set in on the MU, an almost lethargy. There are some really good books being put out, no doubt, but I can't get myself excited to read any of them. I pick them up, I enjoy them...but I don't anticipate them, I don't ever feel I need to get the next issue, and I'm rarely (if ever) blown away by what I read; if it's of high quality, I generally expected that it would be, and the same holds true if it is low.

And I think part of the problem is that there is just a lot of writers who have written a lot of books writing the same books over and over again. I mean, you know what you're going to get with Brubaker's cap. You know what you're going to get with Hickman's FF and Fraction's Iron Man and Aaron's Wolverine. Parker's work, when it occasionally gets n oticed or promoted, is fun and light and often personal, but rarely knock your socks off.

And it's not that those books aren't great, it's just that they are predictably great. There is no sense of 'newness', no youthful vitality.

And I honestly don't know a solution for it; I'm not sure it is really even a problem that absolutely needs to be solved. I'm just trying to figure out why the internet seems to be so particularly down on Marvel lately (moreso than just the usual internet negativity), and why that seems to reflect my own lack of interest and enthusiasm.

Thoughts?

[Uxas]

Yup, my sentiments exactly. I'd like to read more Marvel, but I just can't get excited about anything they're putting out.

My solution? A huge shift in creative teams for the books, with new directions in general. Get Bendis off the Avengers-verse, cut it out with the X-crossovers, let the writers and artists do what they want. That's one of the reasons I've liked quite a few of the New 52 titles- I can feel the excitement of the creators involved, there's a sense of energy in their pages.

[link7521]

I think one of the big problem's is marvel just publish's to many superhero book's and to many redundant book's.How many x book's do we need 25 a month?10 avenger's book's?
Not hateing but I think if they cut there line down to like 60-70 comic's and focused more on quality not quantity people would feel better about there output.

[Desaad]

Or if not cut the number down, try to venture into slightly different genres, as DC has done. I think that, above all else, is what has satisfied me about that relaunch; the diversity of tone and subject represented. But that is a gamble, so I can understand the hesitation.

How I'm feeling about Marvel in general right now is sort of mirrored in how I feel about green Lantern at DC. green lantern Hal Jorda was my favorite character before Johns touched the franchise, and I thought he was doing...okay work for a while there, and I think that was backed up by the popularity and the general BUZZ associated with the books. But it feels very much like it is in the same place as Bendis' Avengers right now, still selling high but without the same heat it had before, where everyone was talking about it.

I think it's time for both creators to move on. I certainly hope they do.

[link7521]

Or if not cut the number down, try to venture into slightly different genres, as DC has done. I think that, above all else, is what has satisfied me about that relaunch; the diversity of tone and subject represented. But that is a gamble, so I can understand the hesitation.

How I'm feeling about Marvel in general right now is sort of mirrored in how I feel about green Lantern at DC. green lantern Hal Jorda was my favorite character before Johns touched the franchise, and I thought he was doing...okay work for a while there, and I think that was backed up by the popularity and the general BUZZ associated with the books. But it feels very much like it is in the same place as Bendis' Avengers right now, still selling high but without the same heat it had before, where everyone was talking about it.

I think it's time for both creators to move on. I certainly hope they do.

honestly i still like gl and hope they keep him on it at least a couple more year's,I like the way they split the book's up hal & sinestro in gl,kyle in gl guardian's,guy and john in corp's.yea the genre thing is basicly what i ment by redundtit.The diversity of dc is great I plan on buying about 25 book's on my pull list finished with about 34, my favriote book's demon knight's,I vampire,voodoo,animal man,agent of shade,omac,justice league dark,resurrection man,wonderwoman,are really comic's that kind of beat to there own drum.

[Hulk_Is]

My suggestion is to buy what you like. And if you don't like what's being put out by Marvel, then don't buy it.

I don't believe that Marvel is in a bad place right now. It's just that what you're seeing today is the Marvel Universe.

Understanding that superheroes is Marvel's main bag goes a long way to satisfaction. If spandex, bright colors, and superpowered fighting isn't your bag, then you might be in trouble. Marvel cannot be what currently is not.

Also, maybe the Ultimate line may be more to your liking since the capes are more streamlined and modern realism seems to be more it's thing.

I see alot of posters/readers that only follow certain writers to books and I think that's where some of the predictability comes from. Instead of allowing the writers to just tell these stories using Marvel's characters in their fictional life settings, these folks instead are more focused on how 'brilliant' so-and-so is rather than just admiring these stories and characters for what they are. Sometimes I feel like some readers forget to realize that these Marvel characters were only meant to have some realism to them, but not to actually be you.

[Meehl]

I want good story telling. I don't want shiny but worthless New 52 baubles and trinkets.

Understanding that superheroes is Marvel's main bag goes a long way to satisfaction. If spandex, bright colors, and superpowered fighting isn't your bag, then you might be in trouble. Marvel cannot be what currently is not.

Spandex super-powered fighting stories don't cut it anymore. They haven't for a decade at least.

[link7521]

I want good story telling. I don't want shiny but worthless New 52 baubles and trinkets.

me to that's why I bought the new 52!

[Castel]

As i'm pretty sure that in a couple of months the sells are going back to what they were before i just would say, don't mind that little stunt too much Marvel fans.

[Hulk_Is]

Spandex super-powered fighting stories don't cut it anymore. They haven't for a decade at least.

I'm not sure how to take this. I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me.

[link7521]

I'm not sure how to take this. I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me.

im with you on at least one thing lol

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm not sure how to take this. I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me.

There is a lot of truth in that, though.

In the past few years the expectations of readers has changed a lot. Standard spandex and capes stories are no longer enough for many. They have to be stories with some actual depth. They have to analyse the characters involved, and their actions, with a much stronger logic and sense of worth. A bar was set high by Marvel during the 2000s, and that's certainly why, in my opinion, that the Heroic Age onwards at Marvel has been so poorly received by a lot of people.

Not all stories involving Capes have to be grim and gritty. But post 2000 we do expect them to be well reasoned at least. You can't go back to generic superhero tales, with wafer-thin plots. That time in comics has long since passed being acceptable to most. And rightly so.

People will never want to stop reading stories about Spandex-clad heroes. But they want to read GOOD stories about them, with strong plots, lasting change and development, and characters who are believable. Marvel haven't been delivering those for a couple of years now.

Fear Itself doesn't deliver that on any level.

[StoneGold]

Spandex super-powered fighting stories don't cut it anymore. They haven't for a decade at least.

And yet you keep buying. That says more about you than it does anything else.

[link7521]

There is a lot of truth in that, though.

In the past few years the expectations of readers has changed a lot. Standard spandex and capes stories are no longer enough for many. They have to be stories with some actual depth. They have to analyse the characters involved, and their actions, with a much stronger logic and sense of worth. A bar was set high by Marvel during the 2000s, and that's certainly why, in my opinion, that the Heroic Age onwards at Marvel has been so poorly received by a lot of people.

Not all stories involving Capes have to be grim and gritty. But post 2000 we do expect them to be well reasoned at least. You can't go back to generic superhero tales, with wafer-thin plots. That time in comics has long since passed being acceptable to most. And rightly so.

People will never want to stop reading stories about Spandex-clad heroes. But they want to read GOOD stories about them, with strong plots, lasting change and development, and characters who are believable. Marvel haven't been delivering those for a couple of years now.

Fear Itself doesn't deliver that on any level.

I really think this go's back to what me and desaad where saying about the book's being redundtit and less diverse.In the early 2000's we had all kind's of diffrent book's for diffrent people.We had tangled web with great oddball spidy book's with indy creator's,dark gritty punisher,New and exciteing spidy storie's with jms,gritty daredevil,light hearted funny deadpool,classic super hero book's in avenger's tbolt's,thor,new x file's feel to hulk,new direction for the 2 x-book's,exile's giveing you a fun light hearted x-book,spider-girl giveing you a classic spidy book.
There was really something for evryone,I think that is kind of missing now.

[CromagnonMan]

theres nothing wrong with what Marvel is doing at the moment, its the best its been for quite some time. If you think otherwise, youre reading the wrong comics. Maybe its YOU thats the problem.

The last thing we want or need is a copy of what DC is doing.