Questions About Pre-Crisis Hawkman

[Shellhead]

In anticipation of buying the new Perez/Wolfman Teen Titans story, I am re-reading their classic Teen Titans run from the early '80s. In issue #19, they are battling Dr. Light and several animated Hindu statues. Those statues came from a museum exhibition that is managed by Carter Hall, aka Hawkman. Only he's the Hawkman of Earth-2 and shouldn't be randomly showing up in a Teen Titans story on Earth-1 without explanation.

So was this the same kind of mistake that was repeatedly made in Brave & the Bold, when Wildcat kept teaming up with Batman? Or was Carter Hall temporarily living and working on Earth-1? There was a brief reference in the story to him not getting along with Shiera due to something that happened in a recent issue of World's Finest, so maybe that story explains what Hall is doing on Earth-1.

[MDG]

At that time "Carter Hall" was also the alter-ego of Earth-1 Hawkman, and he was a museum curator.

[Shellhead]

At that time "Carter Hall" was also the alter-ego of Earth-1 Hawkman, and he was a museum curator.

That's strange. How does an alien cop become a museum curator? Did Katar take some night school classes?

[Jolly Mon]

That's strange. How does an alien cop become a museum curator? Did Katar take some night school classes?

That would be the Absorbascon. A Thanagarian device that allowed them to learn all about Earth's culture, history, & languages.

[Shellhead]

Hmm. Okay, that works for me. Then it seems like DC could have smoothly integrated the two Hawkmen post-Crisis if not for a certain bungled editorial decision regarding Hawkworld.

[Gothos]

Hmm. Okay, that works for me. Then it seems like DC could have smoothly integrated the two Hawkmen post-Crisis if not for a certain bungled editorial decision regarding Hawkworld.

Yeah, I've always thought the "Hawkworld" idea was the classic case where a particular artist pitched a concept to get work, but his idea wasn't something that helped simplify the character-- which was the express mission of the Crisis changeover.

[Reptisaurus!]

So was this the same kind of mistake that was repeatedly made in Brave & the Bold, when Wildcat kept teaming up with Batman? Or was Carter Hall temporarily living and working on Earth-1? There was a brief reference in the story to him not getting along with Shiera due to something that happened in a recent issue of World's Finest, so maybe that story explains what Hall is doing on Earth-1.

It's worth pointing out that several B & B stories did invoke Earth-Two - One written just four issues after the first Wildcat appearance. So it seems like there was a conscious choice to write an Earth-One Wildcat.

But, yeah, in most practical terms, the Earth-Two and Earth-One Hawkman weren't all that different. I ASSUME this is also true of the Golden Age Hawkman, but I've read, like, three Golden Age Hawkman stories.

Also: The Joe Kubert Hawkman stories are the best DC superhero comics of the Silver Age.

[Blue_Beetle]

Hawkman has always seemed so odd to me. I've always liked his design and how he looks, but his backstory seems so confusing.

[MDG]

Hawkman has always seemed so odd to me. I've always liked his design and how he looks, but his backstory seems so confusing.

I was a big fan of silver/bronze age Hawkman, but after the first Hawkworld series, became to confusing to try to figure out what was going on with him.

[JKCarrier]

I like those '60s Fox/Kubert Hakwman stories, but ultimately I think they missed the boat by imposing a sci-fi origin on the character. Everything about the character, from the animal-mask to the antique weapons, fits better with the idea of an ancient warrior reincarnated, rather than a high-tech alien who's "slumming".

Trivia tangent: In the '80s, Steve Gerber pitched an idea for integrating the two versions of Hawkman -- making him an ancient Egyptian who'd been reincarnated as an alien. When DC didn't go for it, he took the basic concept and reworked it into his short-lived Epic series, Void Indigo.

[Shellhead]

I like those '60s Fox/Kubert Hakwman stories, but ultimately I think they missed the boat by imposing a sci-fi origin on the character. Everything about the character, from the animal-mask to the antique weapons, fits better with the idea of an ancient warrior reincarnated, rather than a high-tech alien who's "slumming".

Trivia tangent: In the '80s, Steve Gerber pitched an idea for integrating the two versions of Hawkman -- making him an ancient Egyptian who'd been reincarnated as an alien. When DC didn't go for it, he took the basic concept and reworked it into his short-lived Epic series, Void Indigo.

Interesting. I wonder if Geoff Johns read any issues of Void Indigo or just came up with the same idea on his own?

[Jolly Mon]

I like those '60s Fox/Kubert Hakwman stories, but ultimately I think they missed the boat by imposing a sci-fi origin on the character. Everything about the character, from the animal-mask to the antique weapons, fits better with the idea of an ancient warrior reincarnated, rather than a high-tech alien who's "slumming".

Trivia tangent: In the '80s, Steve Gerber pitched an idea for integrating the two versions of Hawkman -- making him an ancient Egyptian who'd been reincarnated as an alien. When DC didn't go for it, he took the basic concept and reworked it into his short-lived Epic series, Void Indigo.

Interesting. I wonder if Geoff Johns read any issues of Void Indigo or just came up with the same idea on his own?

I think it's safe to say that "reworked" is an understatement in the case of Void Indigo. If you didn't know it started out as a Hawkman pitch, you'd never guess.

[An Ear In The Fireplace]

I like those '60s Fox/Kubert Hakwman stories, but ultimately I think they missed the boat by imposing a sci-fi origin on the character. Everything about the character, from the animal-mask to the antique weapons, fits better with the idea of an ancient warrior reincarnated, rather than a high-tech alien who's "slumming".

I beg to differ. Of course, Gardner Fox created both versions of Hawkman, but I think the "Silver Age" version is more sophisticated. And Fox is doing a fusion of genres with this concept. Maybe that's why Hawkman didn't click with readers the way that Flash, Green Lantern, or even The Atom did--because it wasn't so easy to put Hawkman into a straight category.

Blending all those concepts--futuristic and ancient, science and fantasy--makes Hawkman a much more nuanced character.

The Absorbascon was the thing that made this all work. At first, it just seems like an easy way to get Katar and Shayera onto Earth and explain how they can function there smoothly in their civilian identities. But it gives them a connection to Earth that even Earthlings don't have. They use ancient weapons because they know about them. They know about all the cultures and languages of our world--present and past.

I also like how they shared this knowledge between them. There's a scene in one of the early stories where Katar and Shayera go into a trance state and commune together in exploring the sum of all their knowledge.

You know it was conventional wisdom in comics that people from other planets would dress like Buck Rogers. Hawkman busts that conceit. And it's an interesting contrast to Fox's other big interplanetary concept at the time--Adam Strange. It's interesting to me that Katar and Shayera DON'T dress like Adam and Alanna--or Jor-El and Lara. And why would we assume they should? Only because that's the vision that comic books fed us.

It's pretty amazing on the part of Fox, Kubert, and Schwartz that they thought outside the box with Hawkman. Even if that meant the character didn't prove quite as popular as Green Lantern. Moreover, I think it gave Kubert a lot more to work with. His work on Hawkman was some of his most inventive. It's just too bad he couldn't continue with it, when the Winged Wonders finally got their own comic book.

Also, with both "Golden Age" and "Silver Age" Hawkman, I think the more obvious reason for using ancient weapons is that it's just a lot more fun. Katar/Carter and Shayera/Shiera just think it's really cool to use some odd weapon that most people have never heard of. That makes them entertaining characters.

It's become much more fashionable since then to do this kind of genre bending. That was one of the good things about the prestige format miniseries of Hawkworld (but not the unfortunate continuing series) as it blended standard science fiction concepts with a lot of weirdness and horror.

[Captain Jim]

Hawkman was probably my favorite character back in the silver age. I liked the whole idea of using "the science of the future and the weapons of the past to fight the criminals of the present." Gardner Fox's stories were always well written and the art was top notch. Even when Joe Kubert moved on, he was replaced by Murphy Anderson, another all-time great.

[Toreador]

It was explained early on why Katar and Shayera used ancient weapons. They didn't want their alien weapons to accidentally fall into criminal hands.