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  1. #1
    Elder Member CMBMOOL's Avatar
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    Default When comparing DCnU Superman with BND Spider-man, which one has it better ?

    Well with the release of the new Superman #1 and changes caused by the Flashpoint/DC Relaunch...

    I would like to ask you Spider-man fans, since we KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH CHANGES TO THE TIMELINEwhich of these S themed heroes has it better ?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
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    I can't believe I'm going to say this.....but....Spider-Man....

    Despite causing issues with a few stories, for the most part, we know what happened in the history of Spider-Man. We have no damn clue what the heck is in or not in Superman

    BND also had the benefit of doing a bunch of other things that were good for Spider-Man besides the one stupid thing. Superman 1 just seems like (from just a quick flip through) Superman. I didn't get that sense of Isolation they were supposed to be going for, but again, I just flipped through it.

    Shame really, but Superman 1 I'm going to wait until it's cheap, Action Comics was very very good, so I find that quite sad.
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  3. #3
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    It's probably too early to say.

    Superman has a radically different backstory now, so a lot of established continuity and some really great stories (What's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?) have been thrown out the window.

    But we only have one issue of Superman to compare to BND. And the issue was paced to make the revelations about Clark's new relationship with Lois a last-scene surprise (which DC then decided to spoil).

    George Perez will also be leaving Superman pretty soon. That's not a great sign, but it means that his take on the characters may not matter.
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  4. #4
    Elder Member CMBMOOL's Avatar
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    We are now 6 issues into the New DCU, does anyone think that Superman has a better new life than that of OMD/OMIT/BND/Big Time Spider-man ?

  5. #5
    Senior Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMBMOOL View Post
    We are now 6 issues into the New DCU, does anyone think that Superman has a better new life than that of OMD/OMIT/BND/Big Time Spider-man ?
    Actually, I had no idea what the hell was going on and just dropped the title. Sad to say, as I was looking forward to it, expecting something along the lines of Byrne's '86 revamp but it was a mess instead.
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  6. #6

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    I say DC New 52 has it better. It has it better by a very wide margin. DC didn't upset nearly as many fans with their reboot because it wasn't seen as an editorial mandate to just impose something that an editor wanted. It felt like a real, honest push to bring an entire line together. BND felt too much like the guys at Marvel trying to justify what they did with OMD and I think they did a pretty lousy job of it. It wasn't really until Spider-Island that I found it easy to actually care about the series anymore. So DC definitely had it better and I would argue they still have it better if you look at the sales charts.
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  7. #7
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    I think Spider-Man's done it better.

    Action Comics is retreading stories we've seen before, and I think it's introducing too many concepts, without exploring the stuff yet.

    Superman is roughly average for the new DCU, though Perez will be leaving after his first arc. It's possible that the sixth issue will tie everything together really nicely, although that won't tell us much about whether Jurgens will do a good job.
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  8. #8

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    Well, if you're talking about how DC handled the dissolving of Superman and Lois' marriage vs. how Marvel handled the dissolving of Spider-Man and Mary Jane's marriage, I think DC wins in that regard. One, because the dissolving of Superman and Lois' marriage was part of DC's line-wide relaunch via Flashpoint, that DC has altered their own continuity numerous times already, and also Superman fans have the understanding that, no matter what happens, Superman and Lois are destined to be together no matter what happens. The only point of controversy was Lois' new boy toy, Jonathan Carrol, and look how fast he got dropped after the first issue.

    However, I think Spider-Man has it better overall because, in spite of the mess of One More Day/One Moment in Time, and that it can be argued that many of the elements of Brand New Day didn't actually need Peter and MJ's marriage to be erased from history in order to happen (if you think about it, much of what transpired could have happened exactly the same if Peter and MJ got divorced), it still maintained the essence of who Spider-Man is and what his world is like. What we got with the New 52 Superman, on the other hand, is DC essentially making Supes have the personality of Batman with the personal life of Spider-Man. Oh sure, in Action Comics, we see a Superman who not only embraces his abilities but who doesn't think it's burdensome to go out of his way to help others (something which Superman always should be, BTW, and what Grant Morrison understands, I think); but compare that to the lonely, angst-ridden, bitter sad sack we get over in the Superman title, a depiction that fans have essentially been getting for at least a decade with the Smallville tv series have have become increasingly sick of. At least when Spidey has problems, there's still a sense of fun.
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  9. #9
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
    Well, if you're talking about how DC handled the dissolving of Superman and Lois' marriage vs. how Marvel handled the dissolving of Spider-Man and Mary Jane's marriage, I think DC wins in that regard. One, because the dissolving of Superman and Lois' marriage was part of DC's line-wide relaunch via Flashpoint, that DC has altered their own continuity numerous times already, and also Superman fans have the understanding that, no matter what happens, Superman and Lois are destined to be together no matter what happens. The only point of controversy was Lois' new boy toy, Jonathan Carrol, and look how fast he got dropped after the first issue.

    However, I think Spider-Man has it better overall because, in spite of the mess of One More Day/One Moment in Time, and that it can be argued that many of the elements of Brand New Day didn't actually need Peter and MJ's marriage to be erased from history in order to happen (if you think about it, much of what transpired could have happened exactly the same if Peter and MJ got divorced), it still maintained the essence of who Spider-Man is and what his world is like. What we got with the New 52 Superman, on the other hand, is DC essentially making Supes have the personality of Batman with the personal life of Spider-Man. Oh sure, in Action Comics, we see a Superman who not only embraces his abilities but who doesn't think it's burdensome to go out of his way to help others (something which Superman always should be, BTW, and what Grant Morrison understands, I think); but compare that to the lonely, angst-ridden, bitter sad sack we get over in the Superman title, a depiction that fans have essentially been getting for at least a decade with the Smallville tv series have have become increasingly sick of. At least when Spidey has problems, there's still a sense of fun.
    The changes to Superman were ultimately the result of something that happened in a Flash story.

    I wonder what the reaction would have been if Peter and MJ's marriage had been erased because of something that happened in the Fantastic Four.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member RyanParkerMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The changes to Superman were ultimately the result of something that happened in a Flash story.

    I wonder what the reaction would have been if Peter and MJ's marriage had been erased because of something that happened in the Fantastic Four.
    All depends i'd say. If Reed accidentally screws up the timeline and it's off Peter and MJ's shoulders and the devil doesn't kill their future daughter i'd say the fans might take it well.
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  11. #11
    Junior Member Sano's Avatar
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    I disliked BND for a long time until Big Time started. Now I love ASM and have come around.

    I still miss the marriage and would love to have it back, but Slott's created enough stories that I want in my own personal 'Spidey-verse' so it's cool, I've dealt and moved on.

    So far I don't like what DC has done with Superman.

    Maybe given enough time I would get around to digging Superman too. Thing is, I'm much more of a Spider-Man fan than I am a Superman fan so it's doubtful that I'll keep checking in on Superman off and on like I did with Spidey during the BND years.
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  12. #12
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanParkerMan View Post
    All depends i'd say. If Reed accidentally screws up the timeline and it's off Peter and MJ's shoulders and the devil doesn't kill their future daughter i'd say the fans might take it well.
    I think the fans would have been complaining about different things.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I say DC New 52 has it better. It has it better by a very wide margin. DC didn't upset nearly as many fans with their reboot because it wasn't seen as an editorial mandate to just impose something that an editor wanted. It felt like a real, honest push to bring an entire line together. BND felt too much like the guys at Marvel trying to justify what they did with OMD and I think they did a pretty lousy job of it. It wasn't really until Spider-Island that I found it easy to actually care about the series anymore. So DC definitely had it better and I would argue they still have it better if you look at the sales charts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I think Spider-Man's done it better.

    Action Comics is retreading stories we've seen before, and I think it's introducing too many concepts, without exploring the stuff yet.

    Superman is roughly average for the new DCU, though Perez will be leaving after his first arc. It's possible that the sixth issue will tie everything together really nicely, although that won't tell us much about whether Jurgens will do a good job.
    Quote Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
    Well, if you're talking about how DC handled the dissolving of Superman and Lois' marriage vs. how Marvel handled the dissolving of Spider-Man and Mary Jane's marriage, I think DC wins in that regard. One, because the dissolving of Superman and Lois' marriage was part of DC's line-wide relaunch via Flashpoint, that DC has altered their own continuity numerous times already, and also Superman fans have the understanding that, no matter what happens, Superman and Lois are destined to be together no matter what happens. The only point of controversy was Lois' new boy toy, Jonathan Carrol, and look how fast he got dropped after the first issue.

    However, I think Spider-Man has it better overall because, in spite of the mess of One More Day/One Moment in Time, and that it can be argued that many of the elements of Brand New Day didn't actually need Peter and MJ's marriage to be erased from history in order to happen (if you think about it, much of what transpired could have happened exactly the same if Peter and MJ got divorced), it still maintained the essence of who Spider-Man is and what his world is like. What we got with the New 52 Superman, on the other hand, is DC essentially making Supes have the personality of Batman with the personal life of Spider-Man. Oh sure, in Action Comics, we see a Superman who not only embraces his abilities but who doesn't think it's burdensome to go out of his way to help others (something which Superman always should be, BTW, and what Grant Morrison understands, I think); but compare that to the lonely, angst-ridden, bitter sad sack we get over in the Superman title, a depiction that fans have essentially been getting for at least a decade with the Smallville tv series have have become increasingly sick of. At least when Spidey has problems, there's still a sense of fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanParkerMan View Post
    All depends i'd say. If Reed accidentally screws up the timeline and it's off Peter and MJ's shoulders and the devil doesn't kill their future daughter i'd say the fans might take it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I think the fans would have been complaining about different things.

    All of these posts are basically correct. =p

    Kinda a wide swath, I know, but when you're dealing with something this complicated.

    I will say I never read Superman because issue 1 seemed stupid to me. Action I loved for the first 4....and now issue 7 better be good or else I'm out. Crappy legion story in my Superman origin comic.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The changes to Superman were ultimately the result of something that happened in a Flash story.

    I wonder what the reaction would have been if Peter and MJ's marriage had been erased because of something that happened in the Fantastic Four.
    That would be more acceptable then OMD/OMIT. If the timeline got screwed up, that is more acceptable and make better sense. I would like to see Marvel go this route instead.

  15. #15
    Super Amalgamated! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Spider-man has it better. He's not stuck in an armored Jim Lee redesign costume.
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