Nick Fury from the Beginning (reviews by shaxper)

[shaxper]

And Dino's being a first gen Italian-American was first specifically mentioned back in issue #3. Stonewall expresses his distaste for Dino's Italian ancestry in this issue.

I suppose Lee got around this one by not having Stonewall say what he didn't like about Italians or even outright say he didn't like Italians. I believe he just said, "An Italian, hmmm." or something to that effect, and then refused to shake Dino's hand. Fury connected the dots later, but without specifically stating that Stonewall didn't like Italians.

[shaxper]

Anti-Semitism, I would assume, was what was forbidden. Obviously, being Jewish was fine, considering how open the series was about Izzy being Jewish.

Actually, it wasn't at all. In the span of 6 issues, Stan had done lots to imply that Izzy was Jewish, but he never once said it.

[Tiamatican]

Actually, it wasn't at all. In the span of 6 issues, Stan had done lots to imply that Izzy was Jewish, but he never once said it.

Oh. I think it does become more explicitly stated later on.

[dan bailey]

Actually, it wasn't at all. In the span of 6 issues, Stan had done lots to imply that Izzy was Jewish, but he never once said it.

C'mon -- the character's name is Izzy Cohen. What else could he have been? An Icelander?

[Roquefort Raider]

1. The Howlers do not complete their mission. It's about time that this team faces an impossible situation that it can't surmount.

It'll happen again! I'd like to think it's because Stan and Jack wanted to show that not all missions can be brought to fruition, but deep down I suspect that most of the Howlers' mission objectives were just excuses for them to fight Nazis... whether the mission actually succeeded or not was not that important, provided the story had lots of action. I got the same impression from the several quests begun (and never ended) in the Tales of Asgard seen in Thor.

Of course, watching Izzy risk his life to single-handedly get Stonewall out of an impossible trap and then have Gabe be the one to save him with a blood transfusion at the end was damn satisfying, if a bit hokey.

Truer words were never spoken!

- Kirby's image of Stonewall firing on a Nazi radio man on page 11 comes off as particularly violent. The guy was presumably unarmed aside from the grenade he's already thrown, and Stonewall fires an automatic at the guy at point-blank range.

I had the same reaction, but notice how Stan defuses the brutality of the scene (as he did again and again in similar circumstances where Jack had clearly drawn a scene involving someone being shot to death): the dialogue strongly suggests that it's the radio, not the radio man, who was shot. Great combination of art and text, here, even if the initial intent was changed.

If Rommel is already involved in a plot to kill Hitler, than we're already into 1944 and once again approaching D-Day. Cei-U has warned me to ignore references to the war's timeline in this title, but I just can't help myself.

Yeah, same here. But the fighting in Band of brothers started after D-day, too, so it doesn't bother me so much.

A fantastic issue, full of all the action, comedy, and boundary-pushing that make this title legendary!

Well said! A true 60s classic!

[dan bailey]

As I noted when this ish came up a couple of months ago in another thread, I'd bet the farm* that Stonewall's name is a reference to George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party, who was alive & well (physically, of course, not mentally) at the time the comic came out.




*Full disclosure -- I do not own a single farm.

[Cei-U!]

As I noted when this ish came up a couple of months ago in another thread, I'd bet the farm* that Stonewall's name is a reference to George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party, who was alive & well (physically, of course, not mentally) at the time the comic came out.

Indeed. There's also the mental callback to Confederate general Stonewall Jackson, giving the character an extra "Deep South racist" vibe, apropos considering what was going on in places like Montgomery and Selma at the time. And while I'm sure Stonewall's problem with Dino was ethnic-based, let's not forget we were at war with Italy. No doubt he would've had serious problems with later Howler Eric Koenig, despite his white-supremacist-approved Aryan ancestry.

Cei-U!
I summon the khaki-klad kreep!

[dan bailey]

Indeed. There's also the mental callback to Confederate general Stonewall Jackson,

Oh, yeah -- obviously ... & nigh unto 50 years alter, undoudtedly an infinitely clearer reference than Rockwell, who I'm sure the average American wouldn't know from a hole in the ground.

giving the character an extra "Deep South racist" vibe, apropos considering what was going on in places like Montgomery and Selma at the time.

What? Why wasn't I told?

I summon the whitewash!

[shaxper]

Indeed. There's also the mental callback to Confederate general Stonewall Jackson, giving the character an extra "Deep South racist" vibe, apropos considering what was going on in places like Montgomery and Selma at the time.

That was the connection I had made, especially since he clearly considers Reb more "his kind" than any of the other Howlers. Granted, Reb was from Kentucky, but it's still his side of the Mason Dixon.

And while I'm sure Stonewall's problem with Dino was ethnic-based, let's not forget we were at war with Italy. No doubt he would've had serious problems with later Howler Eric Koenig, despite his white-supremacist-approved Aryan ancestry.

I'd wondered about that. Surely, there were other Italian Americans serving in the US armed services. If Dino is truly based on Dean Martin then, even having been born in Italy (as was suggested in #3), he'd be free of the accent and seem pretty American. Was this a common problem for "Americanized" Italian American's serving for the US?

[shaxper]

I had the same reaction, but notice how Stan defuses the brutality of the scene (as he did again and again in similar circumstances where Jack had clearly drawn a scene involving someone being shot to death): the dialogue strongly suggests that it's the radio, not the radio man, who was shot. Great combination of art and text, here, even if the initial intent was changed.

I hadn't considered this. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's amazing how much subtlety Stan imbues into this title. I'd never known anything about his writing to be subtle prior to this.

[Cei-U!]

I'd wondered about that. Surely, there were other Italian Americans serving in the US armed services. If Dino is truly based on Dean Martin then, even having been born in Italy (as was suggested in #3), he'd be free of the accent and seem pretty American. Was this a common problem for "Americanized" Italian American's serving for the US?

Not if the many war movies of the period with their multi-ethnic military units are any indication, though I believe some Italian immigrants were interned.

FYI, Dino is only loosely based on Dean Martin nee Dino Crocetti. The American-born Martin spent most of the war years singing with various big bands. His military service was spent stateside and he received a medical discharge after less than a year in uniform. He was not a nationally-known figure until he partnered up with Jerry Lewis in 1949 and didn't make his first movie until the early '50s.

Cei-U!
I get hit in the eye by a pizza pie-like moon!

[Scott Harris]

I hadn't considered this. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's amazing how much subtlety Stan imbues into this title. I'd never known anything about his writing to be subtle prior to this.

As with the racism thing, some of this was done out of necessity because the Comics Code wouldn't allow them to show people getting shot, even in a war comic. A lot of the stuff that sometimes seems silly to us when reading now -- like in the westerns when Rawhide Kid shoots the guns out of everybody's hands or whatever -- was done because the code required the changes. I'm sure this was the case in a lot of early Sgt. Fury issues, where Kirby was drawing some real gritty battle scenes and Stan had to alter the meaning through text to get it past the censors.

I've seen Stan get some flak for these changes over the years -- altering the mening of parts of stories where the artist clearly had something else intended -- but a lot of it was forced on him. The fact that he sometimes turned these ridiculous restrictions into passages that actually improved the story is kind of amazing.

[shaxper]

though I believe some Italian immigrants were interred.

There were plans to inter the Italians along with the Japanese, but it never happened. Legend has it that Roosevelt's sole objection to interring Italians was the bad press it would cause if families nationwide heard about Joe DiMaggio's parents being taken away.

[Cei-U!]

There were plans to inter the Italians along with the Japanese, but it never happened. Legend has it that Roosevelt's sole objection to interring Italians was the bad press it would cause if families nationwide heard about Joe DiMaggio's parents being taken away.

My bad. I meant Italian nationals, not immigrants. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Fiorello LaGuardia might've had something to say about interning Italian-Americans. Too bad the Japanese didn't have any prominent politicos to watch their backs.

Cei-U!
I summon the wartime shame!

[MichikoS]

Interment vs. internment

Pedantically yours,
Michi