Page 4 of 17 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 254
  1. #46
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    4,575

    Default

    Had no idea this thread existed!

    Having indexed the first 60 issues and four Annuals, maybe I can give you a little perspective, shax:

    1. Timelines. Forget about the series taking place in real time. The Howlers participate in a number of real-life military operations over the course of the series but these are presented all out of historical order while Our Heroes' continuity proceeds linearly (with the exception of the four Annuals). As for the D-Day sequence at the beginning of #1, you should simply ignore it. After all, it shows Junior storming the beach with the others... and he was long dead by 6/6/44.

    2. The Howlers. You might want to go back and re-read #1 more carefully, particularly the captions on pages 2 and 3. I don't have it in front of me but I'm pretty sure there are more clues to the team's backgrounds than you caught, including Junior's Ivy League background, Dino's Hollywood career (it isn't that he's a master of disguise, incidentally, merely the only Howler fluent in both German and Italian) and a reference to Izzy seeking revenge on the Nazis for their treatment of "his relatives." Also, I'm pretty sure I read that Gabe's being white in large parts of the first three issues was the result of some executive (probably not Martin Goodman) fearing the book wouldn't get distributed in the South if a black man was shown fighting alongside and being treated as an equal by whites. Don't quote me on that, though, as I could be misremembering.

    3. Tone. I've long maintained that some of the brilliance of those first seven issues derives from the difference in the two creators' military backgrounds: Kirby was an infantryman who fought his way across Western Europe and knew the realities of combat while Stan served stateside with the Signal Corps. I suspect Jack made Sgt. Fury so ludicrously over-the-top as a parody of the entire genre and especially of the endless stream of movies and TV shows issued in the two decades following V-J Day that glamorized the war. Lee, by contrast, seemed to take it all much more seriously than the King, as becomes apparent once Ayers assumes the art chores. Not that he tries for realism per se, only that scenes like the one in #3 where it requires a tank to corral the Howlers into the guardhouse disappear post-Kirby.

    Finally, as will become clear later, Happy Sam has several Rangers units under his command, including Able Company (Fury's Howlers), Baker Company (McGiveny's Maulers) and whichever company was Jim Morita's Nisei Squad.

    Love that you're doing this, shax! Keep it up!

    Cei-U!
    I summon the chicken-scratchin' goldbrickin' lightning!
    Last edited by Cei-U!; 12-21-2011 at 08:31 AM.
    It's hardly a secret that something is badly wrong with me. - Dan B. in the Underworld
    I am ... a condescending prick sometimes. But I usually mean to be. - Paradox
    I'm not infallible. I just act like it. - Me

  2. #47
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cei-U! View Post
    Had no idea this thread existed!
    Well, I've been away from it for a while...

    1. Timelines. Forget about the series taking place in real time. The Howlers participate in a number of real-life military operations over the course of the series but these are presented all out of historical order while Our Heroes' continuity proceeds linearly (with the exception of the four Annuals).
    Figured as much. It's beginning to seem to me that neither Lee nor Kirby were taking this series particularly seriously, even if Lee was taking its depiction of the war more seriously than Kirby was.

    As for the D-Day sequence at the beginning of #1, you should simply ignore it. After all, it shows Junior storming the beach with the others... and he was long dead by 6/6/44.

    2. The Howlers. You might want to go back and re-read #1 more carefully, particularly the captions on pages 2 and 3. I don't have it in front of me but I'm pretty sure there are more clues to the team's backgrounds than you caught, including Junior's Ivy League background, Dino's Hollywood career (it isn't that he's a master of disguise, incidentally, merely the only Howler fluent in both German and Italian) and a reference to Izzy seeking revenge on the Nazis for their treatment of "his relatives."
    You know, I had to work off of the reprint from issue #167, and your quotes above make me pretty sure it's missing pages. I just went back and checked, and the pages 2 and 3 you describe are not there. Similarly, while my page one is a full page panel of the Howlers storming something, there's no indication that it's Normandy. So either the reprint is incomplete, or you are off your rocker. I'm more inclined to trust you over the reprint, mind you

    Also, I'm pretty sure I read that Gabe's being white in large parts of the first three issues was the result of some executive (probably not Martin Goodman) fearing the book wouldn't get distributed in the South if a black man was shown fighting alongside and being treated as an equal by whites. Don't quote me on that, though, as I could be misremembering.
    I suspected as much. I remember DC's similar controversy over trying to insert a black hero into the Teen Titans only a few years later.

    3. Tone. I've long maintained that some of the brilliance of those first seven issues derives from the difference in the two creators' military backgrounds: Kirby was an infantryman who fought his way across Western Europe and knew the realities of combat while Stan served stateside with the Signal Corps. I suspect Jack made Sgt. Fury so ludicrously over-the-top as a parody of the entire genre and especially of the endless stream of movies and TV shows issued in the two decades following V-J Day that glamorized the war. Lee, by contrast, seemed to take it all much more seriously than the King, as becomes apparent once Ayers assumes the art chores. Not that he tries for realism per se, only that scenes like the one in #3 where it requires a tank to corral the Howlers into the guardhouse disappear post-Kirby.
    This is fantastic. Thanks for the abundant insight.

    Finally, as will become clear later, Happy Sam has several Rangers units under his command, including Able Company (Fury's Howlers), Baker Company (McGiveny's Maulers) and whichever company was Jim Morita's Nisei Squad.
    Good to know!

    Thanks much, Kurt.

  3. #48
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MDG View Post


    So Magneto created Wings?

  4. #49
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dan bailey View Post
    With all due respect to my friends here who think '70s Kirby was the bee's knees, that's sort of like knowing Paul McCartney only by his work with Wings. Except way worse than that.

    If Kamandi and New Gods are Kirby's Wings, then "Band on the Run" and "Simply Having a Wonderful Christmas Time" must be some of the greatest tunes ever recorded...

  5. #50
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    montgomery al
    Posts
    11,410

    Default

    Different strokes, of course. I have about as much use for Kirby without Lee in general as I do McCartney without Lennon (not that the analogy is really all that satisifying, because if anything Kirby would be Lennon ...).
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  6. #51
    Run Runner shaxper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, OH
    Posts
    6,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dan bailey View Post
    Different strokes, of course. I have about as much use for Kirby without Lee in general as I do McCartney without Lennon.
    You don't like "Yesterday?" or "Let it Be?"

  7. #52
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    montgomery al
    Posts
    11,410

    Default

    I don't hate them, exactly, but if I heard their opening chords on the radio I'd probably switch stations. With a couple of exceptions (that don't come to mind at the moment; I almost cited "Imagine," but of course that's Lennon solo), I prefer the Beatles' poppier &/or more rocking stuff.
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  8. #53
    NOT Bucky O'Hare! The Confessor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Londinium, Britannia
    Posts
    6,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    If Kamandi and New Gods are Kirby's Wings, then "Band on the Run" and "Simply Having a Wonderful Christmas Time" must be some of the greatest tunes ever recorded...

    Not really relevant to the current discussion but I'd say that the former is definitely one of the best songs of Paul McCartney's solo career. Arguably, the Band On The Run album represents the pinnacle of his post-Beatles output, although personally I've always thought that 1971's Ram trumps it.
    MY PULL LIST
    Astro City Kick-Ass 3 Star Wars: Dark Times Superior Spider-Man

  9. #54
    Senior Member mrc1214's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,088

    Default

    I really have to get on board with this series. I was looking at some of the later Nick Fury series. Like Nick Fury vs SHIELD,Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD. But really want to read this one. Anyone try the later stuff its dirt cheap but I have read a word about any of that stuff.

  10. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrc1214 View Post
    I really have to get on board with this series. I was looking at some of the later Nick Fury series. Like Nick Fury vs SHIELD,Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD. But really want to read this one. Anyone try the later stuff its dirt cheap but I have read a word about any of that stuff.
    Starting with #121, Sgt. Fury became a reprint title until it ended with #167. Those issues are all dirt cheap because they're reprints.
    At last, Boy Comics finally gets its own website!

  11. #56
    NOT Bucky O'Hare! The Confessor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Londinium, Britannia
    Posts
    6,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shaxper View Post
    So Magneto created Wings?

    Not sure if you know this or not, but Wings recorded a song called "Magneto and Titaium Man" on their 1975 album Venus And Mars. The song also name checks the Crimson Dynamo and although its a bit of a lightweight, throwaway number, it's actually a lot of fun too (hear it here)

    Not sure how much of a comic fan Macca is or was but clearly he'd read some comics featuring the characters named in the song. That sketch was presented to Macca by Kirby when Wings played in L.A. in 1975.

    The spontaneous, slightly throwaway nature of the track makes me think that it was maybe inspired by a particular issue that McCartney happened to come across. Does anyone know of a single comic published during 1974 (the year the song was written) that features Magneto, Titanium Man and the Crimson Dynamo together? It would just be kinda nice (for a Beatle nut like me) to be able to point to a specific issue that fits the time frame and be able to say, that issue is likely the inspiration for the song.
    MY PULL LIST
    Astro City Kick-Ass 3 Star Wars: Dark Times Superior Spider-Man

  12. #57
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    montgomery al
    Posts
    11,410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Harris View Post
    Starting with #121, Sgt. Fury became a reprint title until it ended with #167. Those issues are all dirt cheap because they're reprints.
    And of course the existence -- & price! -- of the new Essential Sgt. Fury is extremely relevant here as well.
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  13. #58
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    4,575

    Default

    That reference to the Normandy scene at "the beginning" of #1 actually occurs on the last page. D'oh!

    As far as I know, there is no pre-1975 story with all three villains. By the way, I was at the "Wings Over America" concert in Seattle and when they played "Magneto and Titanium Man," a huge drawing of the trio of baddies was projected on a screen behind the band. I *think* it was a George Tuska piece, possibly a special commission, but that was (gulp!) 37 years ago.

    Cei-U!
    I summon the Geritol!
    Last edited by Cei-U!; 12-30-2011 at 02:32 PM.
    It's hardly a secret that something is badly wrong with me. - Dan B. in the Underworld
    I am ... a condescending prick sometimes. But I usually mean to be. - Paradox
    I'm not infallible. I just act like it. - Me

  14. #59
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    montgomery al
    Posts
    11,410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Confessor View Post
    Not sure if you know this or not, but Wings recorded a song called "Magneto and Titaium Man" on their 1975 album Venus And Mars. The song also name checks the Crimson Dynamo and although its a bit of a lightweight, throwaway number, it's actually a lot of fun too (hear it here)
    As I've mentioned a couple of times previously, I actually prefer the Pontiac Brothers' late-'80s cover ... but that's probably because I encountered it a few years before I did the original.
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  15. #60
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    4,575

    Default

    Incidentally, shax, those two missing pages also reveal the full names of all the Howlers (except for Dum Dum's given name). Junior is Jonathan, Reb is Robert and the caption notes that Reb is a former jockey from Kentucky.

    Cei-U!
    I summon the afterthought!
    It's hardly a secret that something is badly wrong with me. - Dan B. in the Underworld
    I am ... a condescending prick sometimes. But I usually mean to be. - Paradox
    I'm not infallible. I just act like it. - Me

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •