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  1. #151
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    I would love an Ultimate Winter Soldier.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Master Meglomaniac View Post
    That is an interesting idea for a D-list Spidey villain.
    Thanks a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by atlasjj View Post
    I was thinking what other characters I would love to be brought into the Ultimate U. The original 616 Human Torch with his partner; Toro. I realized we have to get either of these two.
    Perhaps what's inside that box Fury/Scorpio had is a new Human Torch.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    I would love an Ultimate Winter Soldier.
    As the resident Cap worshiper, I concur. I would be really, really scared that it would be done wrong though. Maybe we'll get one around the movie.
    Comics are more better.

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    I would love an Ultimate Winter Soldier.
    But how would you adapt the Winter Soldier, considering Bucky is an old man in the UU? If Winter Soldier just some guy who used kill people for the Soviets and now works as assassin for hire, you lose the personal connection between the Winter Soldier and Cap and he is just another villain for Cap to fight.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Master Meglomaniac View Post
    But how would you adapt the Winter Soldier, considering Bucky is an old man in the UU? If Winter Soldier just some guy who used kill people for the Soviets and now works as assassin for hire, you lose the personal connection between the Winter Soldier and Cap and he is just another villain for Cap to fight.
    He'd be Frank Simpson, leading a terrorist attack upon the United States with a new team of Liberators, the Ultimate Masters of Evil but without the cliché title.


    New Liberators Team
    - Created via EDL/Thor technology, Ultimate Skurge The Executioner, would fight Thor.
    - The Beetle would fight Tony Stark (providing Tony survives Fialkov's first arc). (But otherwise we can just use Captain Mahr-Vehl instead).
    - The Ultimate White Tiger would fight Monica Chang.
    - Ultimate Javelynn would fight Hawkeye.
    - And Frank Simpson, the Winter Soldier would fight Cap.
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 04-29-2013 at 06:49 AM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    He'd be Frank Simpson, leading a terrorist attack upon the United States with a new team of Liberators, the Ultimate Masters of Evil but without the cliché title.


    New Liberators Team
    - Created via EDL/Thor technology, Ultimate Skurge The Executioner, would fight Thor.
    - The Beetle would fight Tony Stark (providing Tony survives Fialkov's first arc). (But otherwise we can just use Captain Mahr-Vehl instead).
    - The Ultimate White Tiger would fight Monica Chang.
    - Ultimate Javelynn would fight Hawkeye.
    - And Frank Simpson, the Winter Soldier would fight Cap.
    They should develop a nice bro-hood between Cap and Hawkeye then "kill" Hawkeye and have him be WS. The Frank Simpson idea is pretty good but I'd rather he just stay Nuke. My idea isn't great either.
    Comics are more better.

  6. #156
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    Ultimate Mockingbird would be great. I'd be interested to see what they'd do with her. Would they have her as a scientist full-time instead of becoming a member of the Ultimates? A SHIELD agent? Would she meet Clint? Will she have ever encountered the Phantom Rider in the Ultimates verse? Would she be a morally grey biologist working for SHIELD?

    I'm disappointed that she doesn't seem to be one of the West Coast Ultimates (especially since they have the two other founding members who would be able to be there as members).
    Bobbi Morse: has been on three Avengers teams, worked for SHIELD, evaded the Skrulls for years, received the super soldier serum and Infinity Formula. Still not even a limited series.

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    He'd be Frank Simpson, leading a terrorist attack upon the United States with a new team of Liberators, the Ultimate Masters of Evil but without the cliché title.


    New Liberators Team
    - Created via EDL/Thor technology, Ultimate Skurge The Executioner, would fight Thor.
    - The Beetle would fight Tony Stark (providing Tony survives Fialkov's first arc). (But otherwise we can just use Captain Mahr-Vehl instead).
    - The Ultimate White Tiger would fight Monica Chang.
    - Ultimate Javelynn would fight Hawkeye.
    - And Frank Simpson, the Winter Soldier would fight Cap.
    But all you have done is take Nuke and give him Winter Soldier's name, that is not really an Ultimate version of Winter Soldier. Nuke is still Nuke, you just changed his name. That is not an interesting twist for Ultimate Winter solider.

    Winter solider doesn't work in the UU, because he is character who only worked within the 616 continuity and he doesn't have the same impact in the UU. Taking Nuke and giving him the name Winter Solider is not nearly as interesting as 616 Winter solider, there is no drama or tension with that. Bucky is an old man, Red Skull is the one with the personal connection with Cap, that doesn't leave Winter solider much to do rather then be a generic assassin character or do you as did, just make it a code name for a existing character.

    Plus if Nuke never worked for the USSR, why would he be called the Winter solider? It makes more sense as a code name for a Soviet agent.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Master Meglomaniac View Post
    But all you have done is take Nuke and give him Winter Soldier's name, that is not really an Ultimate version of Winter Soldier. Nuke is still Nuke, you just changed his name. That is not an interesting twist for Ultimate Winter solider.

    Winter solider doesn't work in the UU, because he is character who only worked within the 616 continuity and he doesn't have the same impact in the UU. Taking Nuke and giving him the name Winter Solider is not nearly as interesting as 616 Winter solider, there is no drama or tension with that. Bucky is an old man, Red Skull is the one with the personal connection with Cap, that doesn't leave Winter solider much to do rather then be a generic assassin character or do you as did, just make it a code name for a existing character.
    I seem to have really disappointed you. :D

    It sounds like your opinion is very much based upon your passion for 616 Bucky Barnes to the point where NOBODY could make an Ultimate version work at all. And you seem to forget that Frank Simpson is already an interesting, well-established character in comparison to most Marvel villains, and with a perfectly realistic incentive as to why he would want to launch a terrorist attack upon the United States. So no, he wouldn't be a generic assassin. This is Frank Simpson we're talking about.

    I know I'm not coming up with a truly unique Ultimatization, but I believe the Ultimate Winter Soldier should be just as strong and just as good of a hand-to-hand combatant as Cap, or at least nearly as strong/skilled. And who better than Frank Simpson to fill that role?

    But you don't seem to think that any version of Bucky will work in the UU so perhaps I shouldn't bother.

    Plus if Nuke never worked for the USSR, why would he be called the Winter solider? It makes more sense as a code name for a Soviet agent.
    Nah, he'd be American. Like the 616 Winter Soldier. :P
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 05-02-2013 at 02:34 PM.

  9. #159
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    Yah I thought the name "Winter Soldier" was because of nuclear winter not a Russian winter. Like how the Winter Protocols in Ultimates corresponded to all the nukes dropping on the city.

  10. #160
    @ALLENRICKETTS Codah's Avatar
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    The term "Winter Soldier" comes from Vietnam. Bucky doesn't really represent a metaphor for it's origin so it's likely Brubaker had his own reasoning.

    Also, Robbie, you're taking it way too personal. The guy's making a good point. The whole crux of the character is his connection to Captain America. Whatever character they could name Winter Soldier in the UU could certainly be interesting but wouldn't really play off of the actual Winter Soldier at all so there's really nothing beyond the name.

    I'd rather it be some sort of program or protocol. Maybe an AI.
    Comics are more better.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codah View Post
    The term "Winter Soldier" comes from Vietnam. Bucky doesn't really represent a metaphor for it's origin so it's likely Brubaker had his own reasoning.

    Also, Robbie, you're taking it way too personal. The guy's making a good point. The whole crux of the character is his connection to Captain America. Whatever character they could name Winter Soldier in the UU could certainly be interesting but wouldn't really play off of the actual Winter Soldier at all so there's really nothing beyond the name.

    I'd rather it be some sort of program or protocol. Maybe an AI.
    Red Skull's Grandson would be pretty easy to incorporate.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codah View Post
    Also, Robbie, you're taking it way too personal. The guy's making a good point.
    I'm not taking anything personally. He said that there's no way an Ultimate version of the Winter Soldier could ever work, and he seemed pretty adamant about that, so I'm not going to try and change his mind. To each his own, innit? Personally though, I think Frank Castle would make a good Winter Soldier. He's already an awesome character even without the Winter Soldier title.

    I dont know how my post came across as though I was upset. It was Master Megalomaniac who was so disappointed. Do you think there's a way my post could have seemed more.. calm? You seem to think I'm getting emotional about this, but I'm wasn't, I swear. I'm really sorry if it seems I'm taking things to heart, but I'm not. I'm just having a discussion.

    I do rant a lot though. I tend to type bigger posts than I need to. Perhaps that's where the confusion lies. Lol

    The whole crux of the character is his connection to Captain America. Whatever character they could name Winter Soldier in the UU could certainly be interesting but wouldn't really play off of the actual Winter Soldier at all so there's really nothing beyond the name.
    But he already does have a connection with Cap. He was the villain in Ultimate Comics: Captain America. It's one of my favourite miniseries.

    It would be a play on the phrase "Nuclear Winter".
    Last edited by Robbie_Jee; 05-02-2013 at 03:54 PM.

  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    I seem to have really disappointed you. :D

    It sounds like your opinion is very much based upon your passion for 616 Bucky Barnes to the point where NOBODY could make an Ultimate version work at all. And you seem to forget that Frank Simpson is already an interesting, well-established character in comparison to most Marvel villains, and with a perfectly realistic incentive as to why he would want to launch a terrorist attack upon the United States. So no, he wouldn't be a generic assassin. This is Frank Simpson we're talking about.

    I know I'm not coming up with a truly unique Ultimatization, but I believe the Ultimate Winter Soldier should be just as strong and just as good of a hand-to-hand combatant as Cap, or at least nearly as strong/skilled. And who better than Frank Simpson to fill that role?
    I am not disappointed, I am merely offering you constructive criticism. I can't be disappointed because its not your idea is something on the mass market that I have to pay money, I just don't think its very creative idea. Its like saying you created an Ultimate version of Taskmaster, when all you did was take Crossbones and change his name to Taskmaster, that wouldn't be a very good version of Taskmaster.

    You do realize that Frank Simpson has existed in the 616 universe since the 80s right, why is Ultimate Frank Simpson more realistic and better then 616 Frank Simpson? Wasn't he pretty well "realistic" when he was introduced in Born Again? They are pretty similar, except 616 Nuke never went rogue and worked for the North Koreans. Besides I think you are over hyping how realistic the UU really is, most Batman villains seem more realistic then most villains in the UU.

    You have not created an Ultimate version of Winter Solider, you have just taken Nuke and given him the name Winter Solider, that is kinda lame. The best characters in the UU are ones that take the basic concept of the 616 character and put a new spin on it. For example: Mr. Sinister, Dazzler, Mojo, etc. You have not put an interesting spin on Ultimate Winter Solider, there is no point making an Ultimate Winter Solider if you give the character a truly interesting twist on him, just changing Nuke to Winter Solider is not an interesting twist, its kinda pointless really. Its not a very good Ultimatization. Ultimate Winter Solider doesn't have to be Bucky, as long as there is an interesting twist to Ultimate Winter solider, something better then giving that name to Nuke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    But you don't seem to think that any version of Bucky will work in the UU so perhaps I shouldn't bother.


    Nah, he'd be American. Like the 616 Winter Soldier. :P
    Bucky was American, but worked for the Soviets as Winter Solider.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Master Meglomaniac View Post
    I am not disappointed, I am merely offering you constructive criticism. I can't be disappointed because its not your idea is something on the mass market that I have to pay money, I just don't think its very creative idea. Its like saying you created an Ultimate version of Taskmaster, when all you did was take Crossbones and change his name to Taskmaster, that wouldn't be a very good version of Taskmaster.

    You do realize that Frank Simpson has existed in the 616 universe since the 80s right, why is Ultimate Frank Simpson more realistic and better then 616 Frank Simpson? Wasn't he pretty well "realistic" when he was introduced in Born Again? They are pretty similar, except 616 Nuke never went rogue and worked for the North Koreans. Besides I think you are over hyping how realistic the UU really is, most Batman villains seem more realistic then most villains in the UU.

    You have not created an Ultimate version of Winter Solider, you have just taken Nuke and given him the name Winter Solider, that is kinda lame. The best characters in the UU are ones that take the basic concept of the 616 character and put a new spin on it. For example: Mr. Sinister, Dazzler, Mojo, etc. You have not put an interesting spin on Ultimate Winter Solider, there is no point making an Ultimate Winter Solider if you give the character a truly interesting twist on him, just changing Nuke to Winter Solider is not an interesting twist, its kinda pointless really. Its not a very good Ultimatization. Ultimate Winter Solider doesn't have to be Bucky, as long as there is an interesting twist to Ultimate Winter solider, something better then giving that name to Nuke.



    Bucky was American, but worked for the Soviets as Winter Solider.
    So my idea is "lame". So what? So are most of your ideas. But hopefully I can come up with something better next time.

    You sort of put me on the spot here though. I merely suggested an Ultimate Winter Soldier. Then you questioned it, and so I attempted to offer answers to your questions. You might not think Frank Simpson would make a good Winter Soldier, but I do. To each his own, right? But your aggressive stance is pretty clear here, and calling someone's ideas "lame" is an an American insult, not constructive criticism.

    Besides, if you've already made your mind up that an Ultimate Winter Soldier simply cannot work in the UU, what's the point in trying to argue? It'll just be me continuing to answer your questions as you continue to call my ideas lame.

    PS: No, not Soviet Winter. Nuclear Winter.

  15. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    So my idea is "lame". So what? So are most of your ideas. But hopefully I can come up with something better next time.

    You sort of put me on the spot here though. I merely suggested an Ultimate Winter Soldier. Then you questioned it, and so I attempted to offer answers to your questions. You might not think Frank Simpson would make a good Winter Soldier, but I do. To each his own, right? But your aggressive stance is pretty clear here, and calling someone's ideas "lame" is an an American insult, not constructive criticism.

    Besides, if you've already made your mind up that an Ultimate Winter Soldier simply cannot work in the UU, what's the point in trying to argue? It'll just be me continuing to answer your questions as you continue to call my ideas lame.
    I am not saying he can't work in the UU, but Ultimate Winter Solider needs more of interesting twist then to rename Nuke Winter Solider, that is pointless and not creative. There is not much of point of an Ultimate Winter Solider if you can't give him an interesting twist, he doesn't have to be carbon copy of the 616 Winter solider, but just making Nuke the Winter solider is not an interesting twist, you have not put truly creative spin on the winter solider. I am just being honest, its not a particularly good idea.

    I do think some characters don't work in the UU, like Deadpool. Deadpool was a zany and over the top character and trying to make him more realistic created Ultimate Deadpool, who is a pretty bad character. Its hard for Winter Solider to have the same impact in the UU, as he does in the 616 universe, its not impossible to make a compelling Ultimate Winter Solider, but it is very difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_Jee View Post
    PS: No, not Soviet Winter. Nuclear Winter.
    Doesn't Nuke make more sense as a code name if you are trying to use that reference.

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