Supernatural

[Legato]

Er, How did Eve do more then Cas? His casual killing of Rapheal alone puts him so far above Eve it's ridiculous. Then he follows it up by wiping out an Angel army, unbinding Death with a finger snap (something Death himself couldn't do) and then all the casual killings he did in that one ep. I didn't hate eve like others did but she didn't do anything like Cas did even if it was just for one episode.

Thats basically my point. I dont HATE her but more disappointed in how little she was used regardless of the hype she was given. She showed some promise during her final scene but not enough to put her in the category as one of the most threatening villains in Supernatural. Had she got another season that would have changed but that didn't happen sadly. I would still say Castiel did more than Eve. Especially when he became threatening to the point that his presence became publically known. Also Sam and Dean had to resort to using Lucifer's old trick in binding Death but had to ask Crowley for help,despite the crap Crowley put them through I might add. Also Castiel came close to making Sam and Dean kneel before him but he refused when he realized they were doing it out of fear than love. Castiel had The Winchesters to the ropes, if that Leviathan situation hadn't happen I'm not sure how they would defeat Castiel.

[Nate Grey]

I'm confused by your statement. Why would he have to trick Death, when all he said was Sam hadn't left and made his escape as an illusion?

I'm confused by your confusion, especially when I clarified in the sentence AFTER where I said I don't see Lucifer tricking Death. It was right there in what you quoted from me.

[Farealmer]

Er, How did Eve do more then Cas? His casual killing of Rapheal alone puts him so far above Eve it's ridiculous. Then he follows it up by wiping out an Angel army, unbinding Death with a finger snap (something Death himself couldn't do) and then all the casual killings he did in that one ep. I didn't hate eve like others did but she didn't do anything like Cas did even if it was just for one episode.

Only the Raph thing is relevent and not as relevent as Eve's creatures being responsible for Rufus and Samuel's deaths. Who had far more presence than Raph, who was just a relic around to keep the angel civil war nonsense going.

All the rest was unecessay things that showed he was stronger(which i admitted) but otherwise self contained things that really had no bearing on the overall plot.

[Legato]

Only the Raph thing is relevent and not as relevent as Eve's creatures being responsible for Rufus and Samuel's deaths. Who had far more presence than Raph, who was just a relic around to keep the angel civil war nonsense going.

All the rest was unecessay things that showed he was stronger(which i admitted) but otherwise self contained things that really had no bearing on the overall plot.

Rufus I would agree with but Samuel I dont think provided any impact. Samuel's death in this to me didn't feel as tragic as say his first death when he was killed be YED and YED possessed him because at least with that you saw Dean and Samuel bond in a Grandfather and Grandson fashion so his death by YED was more impactful. In his second return I didn't felt his death was impactful because Samuel betrayed Sam and Dean to Crowley and showed zero remorse to it so to Sam and Dean Samuel is dead to them before he actually became dead. Also with Rufus he was mourned when he died but Samuel was treated as nothing more than a afterthought

[Nate Grey]

Rufus I would agree with but Samuel I dont think provided any impact. Samuel's death in this to me didn't feel as tragic as say his first death when he was killed be YED and YED possessed him because at least with that you saw Dean and Samuel bond in a Grandfather and Grandson fashion so his death by YED was more impactful. In his second return I didn't felt his death was impactful because Samuel betrayed Sam and Dean to Crowley and showed zero remorse to it so to Sam and Dean Samuel is dead to them before he actually became dead. Also with Rufus he was mourned when he died but Samuel was treated as nothing more than a afterthought

Yeah, Samuel's betrayal always kinda bugged me. He was doing it to get his daughter back, right? But she would be cool with one of her sons' soul being held hostage? I think Dean even brought this up. I don't feel a lot of sympathy for Samuel.

[Farealmer]

Rufus I would agree with but Samuel I dont think provided any impact. Samuel's death in this to me didn't feel as tragic as say his first death when he was killed be YED and YED possessed him because at least with that you saw Dean and Samuel bond in a Grandfather and Grandson fashion so his death by YED was more impactful. In his second return I didn't felt his death was impactful because Samuel betrayed Sam and Dean to Crowley and showed zero remorse to it so to Sam and Dean Samuel is dead to them before he actually became dead. Also with Rufus he was mourned when he died but Samuel was treated as nothing more than a afterthought

My point was not that Samuel was as missed as Rufus. But rather both of them were better than Raph. Who was basically a throwaway archangel that suddenly became important when he was the last arch standing. Samuel brought a whole new plotline to Supernatural, where Raph was just a relic from the last one. Granted in the end Samuel and Raph plotlines converged but before that Samuel was a breath of fresh air and really made season 6 unique(along with souless Sam). Where Raph was mostly just an excuse for why things were going on. Samuel's death had impact because of his relations, his motives, and the fact that both things were unresolved at that point. Where Raph dying was just the end to a plotline that was essentially done a season ago. Thats the problem with God Cass as compared to Eve. God Cass was just resolving things that were already done and being artificially extended. Where Purgatory was both relevent then and now even more so with the Levi's on the loose.

Basically Rufus and Samuel felt like characters, while Raph just felt like a plot device.

[ForeverTaskmaster]

Good episode. Not a great episode, but a good one to start the season.
Man, was Crowley scared shitless when Castiel appeared. I think that is the funniest scared shitless look I have ever seen in a tv show or a movie. If anyone knows a better scared shitless look than that please tell me. Death, what else needs to be said about him? He is one of my favorite characters. Epic staredown between Castiel and Death. And I love the way that everyone is scared of Death. That Julian Richings dude is awesome. I loved they way they brought the Leviathan. But please, no more Heath Ledger Joker ripoffs. I am not looking for a Joker character in the Supernatural Universe. And that Aliens scene looked gross despite the low budget Supernatural has.

[Holacik]

I'm confused by your confusion, especially when I clarified in the sentence AFTER where I said I don't see Lucifer tricking Death. It was right there in what you quoted from me.

Geez, my point is if he makes Sam think he escaped hell but actually didn't why the hell would he have to trick Death? I don't think you understood what he said.

[Surtur]

The thing about Lucifer: if what he's saying is true (and I doubt it is, he's Lucifer), that would require him tricking Death

Why would it require him to trick Death? If this is all inside his head then Death removing his soul from the cage would of never actually happened. It would mean that the Winchesters only truly encountered Death once and that was when Dean met him in Chicago.

Though he is Lucifer, if anyone would be capable of tricking Death it would probably be him.

and I don't see that happening. Death himself went and got Sam's soul from the cage, I think he'd notice if Lucifer, even a small part of him, was hitching a ride.

Death is hardly all knowing or anything, he didn't even know the real reason Dean had bound him until he told him. If it turned out Lucifer had escaped by hiding deep inside Sam's mind/soul I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense.

Now I really don't think it's truly Lucifer. If it was he probably wouldn't be concerned with driving Sam crazy..he would want to take control of him.

[Nate Grey]

Geez, my point is if he makes Sam think he escaped hell but actually didn't why the hell would he have to trick Death? I don't think you understood what he said.

I understood it perfectly, already did a post where I put it in context (my theory), and also said doubt the messenger. Just because I'm not saying the same thing as you and standing by what I said doesn't mean I don't understand anything. I'm not treating my POV as sacrosanct, why are you treating yours that way?

Why would it require him to trick Death? If this is all inside his head then Death removing his soul from the cage would of never actually happened. It would mean that the Winchesters only truly encountered Death once and that was when Dean met him in Chicago.

That requires believing the events of ""Appointment in Samarra" didn't happen, which would have and should have affected the rest of the eleven episodes that followed it.

Though he is Lucifer, if anyone would be capable of tricking Death it would probably be him.

So first its why would it require tricking Death, to if anyone can trick Death it would be Lucifer?

Death is hardly all knowing or anything, he didn't even know the real reason Dean had bound him until he told him. If it turned out Lucifer had escaped by hiding deep inside Sam's mind/soul I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense.

And yet he's still higher on the food chain than archangels. Its inconsistent but...there it is.

Now I really don't think it's truly Lucifer. If it was he probably wouldn't be concerned with driving Sam crazy..he would want to take control of him.

I'll repeat it again, so its in one current post: The events of ""Appointment in Samarra" happened. I have no reason to believe it didn't. If you and others do, fine, but until there's onscreen evidence it didn't, I'm taking that ep at face value. Death got Sam's soul as per his deal with Dean that Dean spend a day in his shoes, so to speak. Death also put up a wall so Sam wouldn't go crazy from his experiences in the cage. Castiel brings down that wall to slow the brothers down. Sam encounters different aspects of himself in his own mind, prevails, shows up to try and stop Cas. Fast forward to this ep. Sam is now having hallucinations (meat hooks, chains), culminating in Lucifer "appearing" before him. First he says everything is going nuts, not Sam, then he says Sam is still in the cage with him, that he never left. Its all his newest method of torture.

MY THEORY is that the memories, because they were attained in Hell, are literally becoming real, sentient, and taking the form or avatar of Lucifer. I could be wrong, but that is what I gathered from this episode.

[Nate Grey]

L: I know it all seems so silly doesn't it. Hi Sam. Long time no spooning.
S: You're not here...you're in hell.
L: Now THAT...you're right on.
S: *takes a labored breath* Meat hooks...chains...you...its not real. It's just my brain...making memories...from the cage. Cause of the wall breaking down. Heh. That's all.
L: Mmm...that's a very good...little theory. It's WRONG. Sam, this isn't you going guano. Everything else has.
S: What?
L: Everything...from the second you sprung out of that lock box.
S: That's impossible-
L: No, escaping was impossible. I have to say...I think this is my best torture yet. Make you believe that you are free, then--*pulls fist back* --yank the wool over your eyes. You never left Sam. You're still in the cage. With me.

Any representation of Lucifer, real or not, can't be trusted. But it would seem the comment about everything else going haywire is. Again, I think with the wall gone, the memories are taking on a literal life of their own. This exchange was one manifestation of that.

[Oblivion87]

Looks like Gabriel is still working as Pepsi delivery man.
http://youtu.be/ue7b1p_dbE0

[Capsizing Heart]

Looks like Gabriel is still working as Pepsi delivery man.
http://youtu.be/ue7b1p_dbE0

Going by this, the guy who plays Gabriel isn't actually playing Gabriel but himself... Or he's playing Gabriel in this advert because there are no distinctions between the roles...

[Blueferret]

Good start to the season. Much better than last years.

[Chiasm]

I found the opener to be meh! I'm really really tired of the Angel storylines and would be very happy if once this Cas storyline finishes we never see them again this season.