Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[Loren]

I'm on my cell but you can google it and those websites have their own sources and facts. like i said, snopes isnt alway right.

It's been almost six hours since you wrote this. If you haven't made it within reach of a computer already, then hopefully this will serve as a reminder when you do tonight.

In the meantime, I'd like to point out that Factcheck and About.com's Urban Legends site both agree with Snopes' analysis. Basically, every website with a factchecking mission statement says your 'Obama lied on the bar' story is BS.

So hopefully you'll shed some light on the matter, and share the source that you consider more credible than Snopes, Factcheck, and Urban Legends put together. Until you do, I suppose I'll have to take your suggestion and Google it myself. Which means that I'm left to assume that your preferred source is (after choosing an example completely at random) oh, let's say, Stormfront.

[Iangould]

Speaking of bull, Barry did no soul searching. He is making this desiciom based on what americans think. In 1996 he was for marriage. In 2008 he was against it. in 2012 he is for it. You just dont change your mind about certain issues unless youre pandering to the popular majority.
p

So how did the "popular majority" come to change their minds?

[Darrell D.]

He did state that his view on gay marriage was 'evolving'.
Maybe that's why some people are so mad, they have problems understanding evolution.

[Iangould]

agreed...how is realizing you have been wrong about something and changing your mind about it "flip flopping"?

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
- John Maynard Keynes.

[Iangould]

And when I double post I flip flop and remove the second post.

[Iangould]

what about the reptile people?

they're just a front to conceal the truth about the porcupine people.

[Puma]

He did state that his view on gay marriage was 'evolving'.
Maybe that's why some people are so mad, they have problems understanding evolution.

I, personally, would rather have someone in power who's viewpoints can evolve and change based on observation and learning than someone who is cemented in their beliefs and opinions.

[worstblogever]

I, personally, would rather have someone in power who's viewpoints can evolve and change based on observation and learning than someone who is cemented in their beliefs and opinions.

Agreed. Somewhere between "refuses to budge, whatsoever on issues they support" and "changes views as easily as the wind blows, to get elected" is preferred, from where I'm sitting. And that would seem to be how I'd characterize this.

[mikekerrIII]

It's not "beyond genius". It's not even genius, although from your perspective I can see how it'd look like it.

BTW, before I essentially took semi-retirement to run a chain of comic shops (along with the associated wholesale operation and the internet business) I was a professional economist and policy adviser to government (and ran the comics business on the side).

I depends on the test you are using in some of them 145 is genius. In the US at least there are multiple test used and the results can be quite different numerically even if your results will be similar in percentile ranking.

[Rasputin9977]

Jimmy Carter blast Barry on human rights violations. The more Barry stays in office, the more we find out that the only difference between him and Dubya is that Barry went more extreme.

http://news.yahoo.com/jimmy-carter-a...-politics.html

It's been almost six hours since you wrote this. If you haven't made it within reach of a computer already, then hopefully this will serve as a reminder when you do tonight.

Jesus dude a whole six hours? Haven't you ever heard about 8 hour workdays, plus unpaid lunch hour, plus commuting, plus dinner and showering? You must live in a nice stressless world.

I'd like to post this article I found on your beloved snopes website about Barry's 50 lies. I wouldn't believe them all but it's funny to know what a liar Barry is.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp

http://chasvoice.blogspot.com/2012/0...#axzz1yrSsxBcT
http://www.dailypaul.com/236950/obam...ar-application
http://truthontarget.blogspot.com/20...w-license.html
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/20...ry-commission/

[Iangould]

Jesus dude a whole six hours? Haven't you ever heard about 8 hour workdays, plus unpaid lunch hour, plus commuting, plus dinner and showering? You must live in a nice stressless world.

I'd like to post this article I found on your beloved snopes website about Barry's 50 lies. I wouldn't believe them all but it's funny to know what a liar Barry is.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp

Yeah, if you read past the headline you'll find that most of the alleged "lies' are, in fact, rebutted.



http://chasvoice.blo<div class="bbco...</div> </div>

http://www.dailypaul.com/236950/obam...ar-application
http://truthontarget.blogspot.com/20...w-license.html
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/20...ry-commission/

So those are the sources you're saying are more reliable than Snopes?

How did you make that judgement?

(Other than the fact that they were telling you what you wanted to hear, obviously.)

Edited ot add: I have now read your three sources (which I suspect puts me ahead of you.)

- The first simply repeats the claims made in the e-mail already debunked by Snopes;

- the second cites "Citizen Wells" as its source.

- the third - the same Citizen Wells - simply asserts that Obama was forced to surrender his license with no proof that this was the case and then goes on speculate baselessly as to why he did so.

Critical thinking really isn't that difficult, maybe you should try it some time.

[7thangel]

huh? snopes prints one of those ridiculous emails and then debunks it. what's the point again?

[Iangould]

A further quick note.

The Snopes rebuttal links to an article by Eugene Volokh.

Volokh is, firstly, a law professor, and secondly a conservative Republican who is deeply critical of many of Obama's policies.

The various articles in your circle-jerk all seem to refer back to Charlston Voices - a blog by an anonymous blogger who appears to be both a racist and an anti-Semite (based, for example, on posts about how Jackie Robinson was a dirty commie and how the Rothschilds are conspiring to enslave America).

Which of these sources is the more credible?

[Mister Mets]

I dunno. There are so many sites that contradict snopes and its not like snopes is always correct. I guess this is a case that you choose what you believe is correct.

I'm interested to know what the other site is in this instance.

But Snopes is pretty reliable when it comes to debunking things where there's no question about the facts.

Hell, they gave an undetermined status to the rumor that Jamie Lee Curtis is a hermaphrodite, because there isn't sufficient proof that she isn't.

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/jamie.asp

Yes folks.

$50 for your own site and you too can have your own facts.

George Washington was a dwarf standing on another dwarf's shoulders.

Bananas are fish.

Barack Hussein Obama was forced to give up his law license for disciplinary reasons even though there's no record of any such action.

The sky's the limit.

(Literally. the Earth is covered by a gigantic blue dome. It's true. I saw it on the internet.)

I will use your post whenever anyone challenges me on whether bananas are fish.

[Mister Mets]

agreed...how is realizing you have been wrong about something and changing your mind about it "flip flopping"?

because there are a great many people who have been wrong about same sex marriage and have changed their stance realizing that its no different than a conventional marriage...look at PFLAG...that groups is primarily made up of parents who probaby were afraid or worried about their gay child until they realized that them being gay wasn't the end of the world

are they flip floppers too?

There is a difference with Obama, as he seemed to support gay marriage in 1996, back when he was a candidate for State Senate.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...e_in_1996.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...his_mind_.html

It seems much more common for people to go from opposing gay marriage to supporting it, than the other way around. If he changed his stated position for political expediency, he does qualify as a flip flopper.