Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[Spike-X]

Chris Christie continues his tour ...and on SNL. Where he knocked himself over his temper. He also did a line from a Bruce Springsteen song and said its from a real Poet.

"Is that from Springsteen ?" - Myers.

"Yes Seth it was..." - Christie.

"I wouldn't call him a poet exactly." - Myers

"Your right Seth...more like a Saint." - Christie .

It's hard to be a saint...

[FalconX2000]

"If you voted for the guy who signed the assault weapons ban when he was governor, come right on on. If you voted for the guy who hasn't said jack shit about restricting gun rights since he took office, fuck off."

What an idiot.

Not even that. Obama has expanded gun rights by allowing people to bring guns into federal parks, so long as those guns are legal by local state laws.

[Mr. Holmes]

[worstblogever]

My question is how do they know you've voted for Obama?

Well, I guess he could just deny service to all black people, since like 96% of them voted for Obama. Statistically speaking, he'd be right more often than not.

But y'know, then this just sounds even more like the old South, doesn't it?

[carabas]

Perfectly legal, why would it not be?

I don't think some storekeeper is allowed to pry into who you voted for.

[Slam_Bradley]

I don't think some storekeeper is allowed to pry into who you voted for.

Of course he is. Doesn't mean you have to tell him.

[carabas]

Of course he is. Doesn't mean you have to tell him.

I think it gets a bit dodgier if he refuses service because you won't tell him who you voted for.

Because, well, who on earth is going to tell him they voted for Obama if they want to shop at his store for whatever reason.

[Slam_Bradley]

I think it gets a bit dodgier if he refuses service because you won't tell him who you voted for.

Because, well, who on earth is going to tell him they voted for Obama if they want to shop at his store for whatever reason.

Which is the point. The whole thing is unenforceable. It's a fart in he wind.

However, if he chooses to refuse service to someone who admits they voted for Obama, so what? As I said Obama voters are not a protected class of citizens.

[7thangel]

something that hasn't been discussed much during or after the election

A New Southern Strategy

Charlotte, N.C.

IT’S tough being a Southern liberal. In the postelection analysis of the past two weeks, pundits have made hay of the fact that while Barack Obama won the election, Mitt Romney won the Confederacy. Or as Jon Stewart put it, “most of the Confederacy.”

After Mr. Romney carried the lion’s share of the region’s electoral votes, people were quick to pounce. One person on Twitter wrote, “I always knew the Zombie Apocalypse would start in the Southern States.” On Facebook, in a widely shared image comparing the 2012 electoral map with the map of former slave states, the individual who posted it wrote, “Sometimes change is really hard, especially when people don’t want to change.”

That we are still using the term “Confederacy” to describe the South and pointing to slave maps says a lot about how hard it is for the region to move beyond its historical reputation, however richly deserved, for one that reflects more current realities.

Voters in Charlotte, N.C., Atlanta, Nashville, New Orleans, Birmingham, Ala., and even Jackson, Miss., gave Mr. Obama substantial majorities, not because they are out of step with the rest of the country but because they are part of the same urban-rural divide that drives voting everywhere.

So if we’re going to apply the term “Confederacy,” then perhaps we can all agree that while a majority of Southern white voters seem intransigent to change, the region is nevertheless being transformed by its changing demographics.

Virginia, home to the capital of the Confederacy, went for Mr. Obama. Florida, part of the original Confederacy, also went for Mr. Obama. North Carolina, which Mr. Obama carried in 2008, went to Mr. Romney, but by a very slim margin — more attributable to the economy and job losses than to any conspiracy of Confederate dunces.

Many people have labeled my home state of North Carolina a red state, but it’s much more complicated than that. In the very rural mountain county of Avery, for example, Mr. Romney won with a whopping 74.5 percent of the vote, yet in Mecklenburg County, which includes Charlotte, he lost to Mr. Obama by nearly 23 percentage points. (True, North Carolinians elected a Republican governor, but to be fair, the Democratic candidate ran a weak campaign.)

Similarly, in Fulton County, Georgia, whose county seat is Atlanta, Mr. Obama bested Mr. Romney with about 64 percent of the vote but lost in the state’s mostly rural counties. If Charlotte or Atlanta were the size of New York City, then perhaps we wouldn’t tag either North Carolina or Georgia as red states.

Even when you break down a clear blue state like New York, you can see this urban-rural dichotomy. In Brooklyn, Mr. Obama carried 81.4 percent of the vote; in the rural county of Hamilton, Mr. Romney won 62.2 percent. The same urban-rural divide can also be found in blue states like California and Washington. In other words, before our liberal allies in blue states point their fingers and scoff, they might want to take a look in their own rural backyards for evidence that their states actually have something in common with the supposedly backward ones in the South.

Yes, Southern voters (especially white ones) cast their lot with Mr. Romney. So, too, did voters in a large section of Western states. What do they have in common? They are states with largely rural populations that tend to be less diverse racially and ethnically, and they tend to vote more for conservative Republicans — the same trend found in the rural counties of the bluest of states.

THE coalition that voted for Mr. Obama nationally — single women, minorities and young people — is the same coalition that voted for the president in Southern states. Latino voters, for example, voted overwhelmingly for Mr. Obama, and they also represent the fastest-growing population within the South. Future elections will be determined by this expanding diversity in the region, much to the chagrin of conservative whites.

[...]

To my chagrin, liberals living outside the South deny our existence, lump us all together by using rhetoric about the Confederacy and heap pity on us with a little condescension thrown in for good measure. They also seem to be unaware of nuance.

The fact is, liberals everywhere live among people who don’t share their views. Are you listening Wisconsin, Arizona, Indiana and, yes, New York? Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond are long dead. Michele Bachmann, Scott Walker and other Tea Party darlings are alive and well, and they aren’t all whistling Dixie.

If the Democrats are going to be a true majority party, they will need to build a coalition in all 50 states. So rather than see the South as a lost cause (pun intended), the Democratic Party and liberals north and west of us should put a lid on their regional biases and encourage the change that is possible here.

[o1pickleboy]

something that hasn't been discussed much during or after the election

A New Southern Strategy

Regional Bias? Clinton was from Arkansas,Carter was from Georgia, Johnson was from Texas.

[Nick Soapdish]

Regional Bias? Clinton was from Arkansas,Carter was from Georgia, Johnson was from Texas.

That was a while ago. Even Clinton who hasn't run since 1996. (But you left out Gore in 2000.)

But I don't entirely get the writer's point. Obama made a strong effort in trying to take North Carolina and even Georgia in 2008 and didn't completely give up on NC in 2012. Maybe the writer is seeing an undercurrent of the Democratic Party that is completely writing off the South, but as a Floridian, I'm not really seeing it. I guess it depends on whether that was particular to Obama or part of a greater Democratic strategy. Yeah, if the South was as urban as the North, it'd be blue territory as well, but that's the way it rolls. And IMO, there has been a strong racial component to the South's support for Republicans - and particularly, its opposition to Obama. So bringing up the Confederacy and Civil Rights Movement is fairly appropriate.

[worstblogever]

I think it might be hilarious if the GOP get surprised in 2016 by assuming they'll just win the southern states again, until early polls come in, and they have to panic because it's up for grabs if the Democrats run a white candidate.

"HOW DID WE LOSE OUR SUPPORT BASE? WHAT'S GOING ON? THEY DON'T GET ANGRY WHEN WE TRY TO CONVINCE THEM HILARY CLINTON IS THE "OTHER"! OH NO!"

[Spike-X]

Which is the point. The whole thing is unenforceable. It's a fart in he wind.

However, if he chooses to refuse service to someone who admits they voted for Obama, so what? As I said Obama voters are not a protected class of citizens.

Exactly. Let them go spend their money somewhere else. Then when he finds that he's losing business, he'll have something else to cry about and blame Obama for.

[o1pickleboy]

That was a while ago. Even Clinton who hasn't run since 1996. (But you left out Gore in 2000.)

But I don't entirely get the writer's point. Obama made a strong effort in trying to take North Carolina and even Georgia in 2008 and didn't completely give up on NC in 2012. Maybe the writer is seeing an undercurrent of the Democratic Party that is completely writing off the South, but as a Floridian, I'm not really seeing it. I guess it depends on whether that was particular to Obama or part of a greater Democratic strategy. Yeah, if the South was as urban as the North, it'd be blue territory as well, but that's the way it rolls. And IMO, there has been a strong racial component to the South's support for Republicans - and particularly, its opposition to Obama. So bringing up the Confederacy and Civil Rights Movement is fairly appropriate.

I went for the just the winners but Gore counts but if we are going that direction. John Edwards and Lloyd Bentsen can be added to the mix.

I think the point of the article is its a rural vs urban thing not a north vs south thing.

[worstblogever]

Allen West, crazy as ever, still refuses to concede defeat. This in spite of a recount of the early voting ballots from his district upholding his opponent, Patrick Murphy's win by 1900+ votes.