Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[7thangel]

not only a victory for Real America (time to take that phrase from the bigots), but a victory in spite of the attempts to suppress and deny people the right to vote. a victory over organizations that train their people with ignorance about the system they have been sent to watch and harass

case in point, in CO



http://colorlines.com/archives/2012/...8ColorLines%29

[Winslow]

Because Americans are contradictory. They want Congress as a whole to be more bipartisan, but they want their individual representative to be stubborn. (There was a poll for that, but I'm afraid that I don't know where it is. Sorry.)

I posed elsewhere today that gerrymandering and lack of term limits in congress will only keep this crazy trend perpetuating. Gerrymandering ensures re-election, so the congress person just keeps appealing to their base without any consequence.

It's not like they get points for accuracy - Here Comes the Landslide. There are a lot out there that are just entertainers.

I wish I had the time and audience to troll that crap and mock it.

[Alex]

Nah, you're just racist because you're a racist. Who you voted for is just coincidence.


Rimshot.

Enitrely possible, somebody told me earlier that i could be racist and not even know i had racist feelings, especialy since i'm not from the northeast.
They actually said that, all of it, i didn't make it up.

[Winslow]

Enitrely possible, somebody told me earlier that i could be racist and not even know i had racist feelings, especialy since i'm not from the northeast.
They actually said that, all of it, i didn't make it up.

Actually, I agree with that. Well, except with the disclaimer about the Northeast ... I think having subconscious attitudes towards race that you are not aware of is fairly common though.

[Vibranium]

Actually, I agree with that. Well, except with the disclaimer about the Northeast ... I think having subconscious attitudes towards race that you are not aware of is fairly common though.

I would agree there...some people gets those conceptions because they don't have contact with a diverse group, its more out of ignorance than malice

[Nick Soapdish]

Actually, I agree with that. Well, except with the disclaimer about the Northeast ... I think having subconscious attitudes towards race that you are not aware of is fairly common though.

I agree. I took a racial preference test and did worse than I was expecting. (I'm hovering between showing a mild and moderate preference towards whites.) I mean, I'd love to think that I'm an open-minded guy and intellectually, I know that we're the same, but there's another part of me that says "except ...".

[Jabare]

how the heck is Florida not done yet?

[Lancerman]

I don't think the people who did vote republican this election (i'll ignore those who went for other parties) care about civil rights in general. For women, or for minorities.

If they do, then again, their vote didn't show that. Because to me, and apparently a lot of Americans, the choice was either fall backwards, or move forwards socially.

That kind of falls apart when you realize that social issues are really down the ladder for a majority of Americans when it comes to voting. Typically Economy is far and away the dominant factor in the vote then its followed by foreign policy. It's a small minority of voters thats place their vote straight down on one or more social issues. For instance it was pretty clear that Romney was jumping through hoops to keep from having to talk about social issues. If I was a Republican that wouldn't give me any confidence in him if the platforms social issues were my agenda. Then again its pretty clear that most of the youth in the Republican party are socially liberal (but I doubt they voted Democrat).

The Republican party is clearly going to have to move left on the social aspects of their platform to remain viable. It's inevitable. The only issue i reconciling that with certain more stubborn sections of their base.

[Lancerman]

Enitrely possible, somebody told me earlier that i could be racist and not even know i had racist feelings, especialy since i'm not from the northeast.
They actually said that, all of it, i didn't make it up.

Thats actually true. Racism is just the belief that one race is superior or inferior at any given thing based solely on their racial make-up. So if you ever though "whites are worse at...." or "blacks are better at" you get the picture.

[Alex]

I agree. I took a racial preference test and did worse than I was expecting. (I'm hovering between showing a mild and moderate preference towards whites.) I mean, I'd love to think that I'm an open-minded guy and intellectually, I know that we're the same, but there's another part of me that says "except ...".

Nah, you can have an ingrained preferance for your race without being racist, take the test.
This only applys if you are white by the way.
Have you honestly, ever not spoken to someone simply because they are black?
If you had the ability to hire a person for a job, would you not do so just because they were black? Followup question, if you would hire them only because they are black, that may also be racism.
So, there's racism where it's like...you hate people of another race because they are of another race, and then there is you being more comfortable with people who look like you but don't actually have anything against other races.
I think it was one of my socilogy classes where we went over this, and if that is the basis for racism, then more black people are racist than white people, and i don't think that's what it actually is.

[Loren]

Actually, I agree with that. Well, except with the disclaimer about the Northeast ... I think having subconscious attitudes towards race that you are not aware of is fairly common though.

People tell me I'm white and I believe them because I don't like Tyler Perry movies.

[Lancerman]

Nah, you can have an ingrained preferance for your race without being racist, take the test.
This only applys if you are white by the way.
Have you honestly, ever not spoken to someone simply because they are black?
If you had the ability to hire a person for a job, would you not do so just because they were black? Followup question, if you would hire them only because they are black, that may also be racism.
So, there's racism where it's like...you hate people of another race because they are of another race, and then there is you being more comfortable with people who look like you but don't actually have anything against other races.
I think it was one of my socilogy classes where we went over this, and if that is the basis for racism, then more black people are racist than white people, and i don't think that's what it actually is.

Either way that still is the basis for inequality. If you had a white company owner having an equally qualified pool of potential employees and he hired mostly the white ones (when all the other races are just as qualified) just because he is "more comfortable" with his race that causes problems and an unfair predicament.

[jesse_custer]

I agree. I took a racial preference test and did worse than I was expecting. (I'm hovering between showing a mild and moderate preference towards whites.) I mean, I'd love to think that I'm an open-minded guy and intellectually, I know that we're the same, but there's another part of me that says "except ...".

I do think calling this sort of thing "racist" might trivialize actual racism. I'm sure an anthropologist has a better term for this sort of thing.

How did this test measure your racial preference, out of curiosity?

[Nick Soapdish]

Nah, you can have an ingrained preferance for your race without being racist, take the test.
This only applys if you are white by the way.
Have you honestly, ever not spoken to someone simply because they are black?
If you had the ability to hire a person for a job, would you not do so just because they were black? Followup question, if you would hire them only because they are black, that may also be racism.
So, there's racism where it's like...you hate people of another race because they are of another race, and then there is you being more comfortable with people who look like you but don't actually have anything against other races.
I think it was one of my socilogy classes where we went over this, and if that is the basis for racism, then more black people are racist than white people, and i don't think that's what it actually is.

I wasn't agreeing with the post before Winslow's but his own statement which I thought changed the tenor of the argument a bit. I think that's where subconscious attitudes towards race fit in. I wouldn't call it racism exactly, but people are more likely to vote for people of their own race even when believing that members of the other race are equal.

People tell me I'm white and I believe them because I don't like Tyler Perry movies.

I hadn't heard that one from Stephen Colbert.

[Alex]

Either way that still is the basis for inequality. If you had a white company owner having an equally qualified pool of potential employees and he hired mostly the white ones (when all the other races are just as qualified) just because he is "more comfortable" with his race that causes problems and an unfair predicament.

Because what you just described isn't being more comfortable, it's racism because he is actively not hiring the black guys because they are black.
But then he shouldn't always hire the black guy who's equally qualified....hmmmm. Flip a coin!