Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[Jabare]

But even that is misleading, that's something the republican party needs to change to appeal.
I don't often vote democrat, very rarely in fact (well...i voted for gary johnson this time so i didn't vote republican either, but still!), i support legalization, i support equal rights for gay people (saying you support gay marriage weakens the arguement btw), i still support a fiscally conservative economic agenda though.

Those 2 things don't have to be an either or proposition. I am by no means alone on in.

the perception is that the GOP does not support gay marriage, and mos tof the social issues that passed. It's not always fair to generalize like that but it happens and people will associate your beliefs with your parties logically. At truth I am an independent, but on most social issues I'm very progressive. In terms of the economy I'm pretty conservative.

If republicans want effectively show they support these things while remaining part of the GOP than real strides need to be made to reform that party. There are a lot of things I dislike about the Democratic party, but its night and day compared to the rhetoric I hear out of the GOP. I mean financially I do okay and given my expected career path Romney's tax breaks would have indeed helped me in the future. But he did not ever produce an effective and consistant economic plan, and after that I pretty much didn't agree with any of the radical views of the party.

So those things shouldn't always be an either or position but in this two party system its often the case and in this instance you've go to chose which side your on. Obama won pretty handily.

[Tommy]

Montana's senate race has been called for Democrat John Tester.


This is unexpected good news (although even more unexpected good news would be the revelation that North Dakota Democrat Heidi Heitkamp won her Senate seat, which is actually likely now, but a recount is about to happen).

[Shellhead]

12% increase in rates where i work, boss was sadface.
:-(
And the economy is down already!
How no one isn't shitting on the insurance companies when they are raising rates in preperations for a lot of new business is beyond me.

Our small company just got the news yesterday about our health insurance renewal for 2013: only a 2% increase. We're not even going to bother with quotes from competing carriers this year.

[Deadman25]

Has Obama care taken affect yet ? cause the only Medical bennefits thats deducted from my paycheck is the group insurance that I signed up with.

[Nick Soapdish]

right ...again I agree...I just think the ACA was really rushed through without deeper considerations is all

It wasn't really rushed; they spent most of a legislative session debating it. The bigger problem was that they had to make compromises on every vote after about 53 in the Senate. I think that if the Republicans had been more interested in cooperation, the Democrats wouldn't have had to add schlock for those votes and they would've been a check on some of the stupider provisions.

And yes, a few did cooperate, negotiating for three months to kill the public option (which had to be done to get all 60 Democratic votes).

I wasn't talking about that, i was just saying the president didn't crack 51% support, Romney couldn't have done that bad with that number.
I checked, 50.3%, that's barely a majority. That and the non shift in the balance of power screams bipartisanship to the extreme to me.
I would say i'm not giving the politicians enough credit, but come on!

He hasn't cracked 51% yet. California, Oregon and Washington still have millions of votes to count. And he still has a 2% lead over Romney.

I do agree that America wants more bipartisanship and seems to be ok with a split government. But I don't understand the argument that Republicans can complain that Democrats aren't compromising enough with them because they have the Senate and Presidency and the Republicans only have the House.

Not all brown people, just more brown people percentage wise.
Wasn't oreilly pointing out at some point that more white people were on food stamps?
Edit: And yes, im aware the republicans don't run on ending foodstamps and just use it as a depressingly large number to point too, but still, it's technically a handout.

No, they actually do run on trying to end (or at least dramatically reduce) it. Romney was criticizing Obama for removing the work requirement (which of course, he hadn't done). And complaining that everybody on it wouldn't be voting for him anyway (because he knew that he didn't have a prayer of taking Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi, Louisiana or Arkansas).

But even that is misleading, that's something the republican party needs to change to appeal.
I don't often vote democrat, very rarely in fact (well...i voted for gary johnson this time so i didn't vote republican either, but still!), i support legalization, i support equal rights for gay people (saying you support gay marriage weakens the arguement btw), i still support a fiscally conservative economic agenda though.

Those 2 things don't have to be an either or proposition. I am by no means alone on in.

I wish that we had more like Johnson in the Republican party.

[Vibranium]

Well, the first statement would apply to the 50 percent who supports Obama, from O'Reilly's standpoint. Minority groups aren't the only people who support Obama.

The second statement is spot on. Anyone who knows history knows that the United States has routinely given Hispanics and women the shaft. They do want something more from the government - they do feel entitled, and goddamn it, they should!

they want to be treated as equals....I don't think that is too much too ask

[Alex]

the perception is that the GOP does not support gay marriage, and mos tof the social issues that passed. It's not always fair to generalize like that but it happens and people will associate your beliefs with your parties logically. At truth I am an independent, but on most social issues I'm very progressive. In terms of the economy I'm pretty conservative.

If republicans want effectively show they support these things while remaining part of the GOP than real strides need to be made to reform that party. There are a lot of things I dislike about the Democratic party, but its night and day compared to the rhetoric I hear out of the GOP. I mean financially I do okay and given my expected career path Romney's tax breaks would have indeed helped me in the future. But he did not ever produce an effective and consistant economic plan, and after that I pretty much didn't agree with any of the radical views of the party.

So those things shouldn't always be an either or position but in this two party system its often the case and in this instance you've go to chose which side your on. Obama won pretty handily.

There is hope.

There, beleive it or not, is a sizeable group of younger people in the republican party, Ron Paul wasn't drawing 10k people to rallys from witchcraft with barely ANY press coverage by using magic, and while the party won't take a lot of his views seriously, they understand that some of it resonates with younger voters. The old positions of power in the republican party are nearing the end of their career.
If they want to hang on to these old views that people no longer support, then by all means, they should, but in doing so they will kill that party and kill any sort of conservative voice in this country.

[Alex]

I wish that we had more like Johnson in the Republican party.

That's the only way the party survives.
The ridiculous thing is, the current powers in the republican party aren't even sticking to the roots of the goddamn party, small government is paid lip service, and they are talking out of both sides of their mouths by saying they want smaller government while promosing the denial of equal rights to gay people, or saying they support capitalism and the democrats don't when both parties support crony capitalism.

[Nick Soapdish]

There is hope.

There, beleive it or not, is a sizeable group of younger people in the republican party, Ron Paul wasn't drawing 10k people to rallys from witchcraft with barely ANY press coverage by using magic, and while the party won't take a lot of his views seriously, they understand that some of it resonates with younger voters. The old positions of power in the republican party are nearing the end of their career.
If they want to hang on to these old views that people no longer support, then by all means, they should, but in doing so they will kill that party and kill any sort of conservative voice in this country.

Ron Paul isn't the best example to counter the perception that the Republican Party doesn't support marriage equality. He said that he supported the Defense of Marriage Act and answered about Prop 8 in California that he thought that marriage was between a man and a woman. He is ok with states or municipalities voting for marriage equality, but opposes it personally.

[Alex]

Ron Paul isn't the best example to counter the perception that the Republican Party doesn't support marriage equality. He said that he supported the Defense of Marriage Act and answered about Prop 8 in California that he thought that marriage was between a man and a woman. He is ok with states or municipalities voting for marriage equality, but opposes it personally.

Ron Paul as the candidate isn't the answer, this is about the party as a whole and where it's going, it doesn't matter what a person personaly beleives, him saying he is ok with areas voting on it is a state the republican party as a whole is unwilling to take.
One of the worst things the democrats could do for their platform but for moving forward the political discussion in america is them federal passing gay marriage, bam, not in the discussion anymore, gone.

[Alex]

Has Obama care taken affect yet ? cause the only Medical bennefits thats deducted from my paycheck is the group insurance that I signed up with.

2014 i think is when it starts, i got my papers somewhere though...

[JeffreyWKramer]

Some parts of the law are already in effect, but not most of those that will have the biggest impact. Those go into effect July 2014.

[Nick Soapdish]

Ron Paul as the candidate isn't the answer, this is about the party as a whole and where it's going, it doesn't matter what a person personaly beleives, him saying he is ok with areas voting on it is a state the republican party as a whole is unwilling to take.
One of the worst things the democrats could do for their platform but for moving forward the political discussion in america is them federal passing gay marriage, bam, not in the discussion anymore, gone.

Nah, it'll still be in the political discussion for a while because you'll have Republicans railing at the federal government for imposing marriage on the states. But marriage equality is gaining popularity even among Republicans (the guy that argued Bush's side in Bush v. Gore argued for it) and I expect that acceptance will rise more as more people see it and the world doesn't end.

Even if it does hurt the Democrats, I still want it passed pronto. It's unfair and that (along with abortion) are a distraction from real issues.

And yes, the Republicans do have some younger voters. But the Democrats are taking 60% of voters under 30 so the Republican Party needs to hope that they move right as they get older.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Also, I agree that for the GOP to survive, they need to abandon the social conservatism and embrace a more traditionally libertarian stance, focused on individual liberties and fiscal conservatism. Fiscal conservatism is not a bad thing, but it means more than cutting welfare. It also means cutting off benefits for the wealthy, ending corporate welfare and so forth.

People within the GOP have been saying more or less the same thing for decades, though. Bob Dole said it when he lost to Clinton, and John McCain said it during the second Bush administration, only to go and kiss up to douches like Falwell when he decided to make another run at the presidency.

For the GOP to become a vibrant, healthy party again, they will need to accept some short-term losses that will come by abandoning the religious fanatics, the racists and the other extremists which have become more and more a part of their base, while demonstrating a consistent stance of responsible social conservatism, not just giving lip service to that stance while continuing the corporate pork.

That would be nice if it ever happened, but I'm not holding my breath, because I don't think the current party is capable of taking that long-term, strategic approach.

[JeffreyWKramer]

And yes, the Republicans do have some younger voters. But the Democrats are taking 60% of voters under 30 so the Republican Party needs to hope that they move right as they get older.

CNN.com had some graphs based on exit polling, and the trends were pretty stark: Older, male voters from rural areas were mostly voted for Romney. Younger, female and urban voters were overwhelmingly for Obama.

Basing your future on old white guys from rural areas is not a model for long-term success.