Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I would not say that. You cannot demand from people to vote against their own interest. If you are really convinced that Romney will improve the economy and the well being of you and your family then I consider it to be legitimate to vote for him. It is normal in Democracy that you vote for the person/party you think represents your interest the best.

I bet it is normal, I'm just saying that people are far too willing to do that and throw entire groups a people's civil rights under the bus in the process. And to me, that's inhumane. Especially for those who consider themselves religious.

[Vibranium]

Well, that just plays into what I said: there is a general lack of empathy that comes into play when voting for someone you KNOW will be bad for a minority group.

indeed...what's worse is that a lot of people have that problem

[Vibranium]

I bet it is normal, I'm just saying that people are far too willing to do that and throw entire groups a people's civil rights under the bus in the process. And to me, that's inhumane. Especially for those who consider themselves religious.

because they think it will somehow make things better for them

[worstblogever]

Well, apparently Jeff Flake is a little nervous about how he might do in the Arizona Senate race against Rich Carmona. That's why he decided to go with the classy move of paying for robocalls to tell local voters where their nearest polling place is.

Did I mention Flake's campaign is sending the robocalls to Democrats, and that it's telling them to go miles away from where their actual polling place is?


Also, a report on George Allen's record has hit in the Virginia Senate race... apparently through the 1990s, Allen campaigned to keep the Virginia official state song in place while in the state legislature. A song that from the 1970s on many were trying to repeal, since it featured lots of racially-charged terms like, "Darkey" and "Massas". This is the same guy who casually used the term "macaca", after all. Maybe we shouldn't be surprised.


What a bunch of ***holes.

[the4thpip]

I would not say that. You cannot demand from people to vote against their own interest. If you are really convinced that Romney will improve the economy and the well being of you and your family then I consider it to be legitimate to vote for him. It is normal in Democracy that you vote for the person/party you think represents your interest the best.

It does say that your own financial interest outweighs the basic human rights of others. That is pretty sad.

[Vibranium]

It does say that your own financial interest outweighs the basic human rights of others. That is pretty sad.

that is what we default to when times get hard....we look out for ourselves

[mikekerrIII]

The part that kills me is that they don't seem to realize that they're not going to win even IF they cheat.

They have a significant chance of winning even now

[kane]

It does say that your own financial interest outweighs the basic human rights of others. That is pretty sad.

If we are talking about a few dollar/euro/pound, then maybe. But if you are thinking that voting for a party decides about you being unemployed or not, about provisions for your old age, about being able to send your kid to college? You have an obligation to yourself and your family first.

And it is not like you are doing something wrong. You use your right to vote for your interest, just like other people use their right to vote for their interest. You have no obligation to hurt your own interest for the sake of others.

[Shellhead]

If we are talking about a few dollar/euro/pound, then maybe. But if you are thinking that voting for a party decides about you being unemployed or not, about provisions for your old age, about being able to send your kid to college? You have an obligation to yourself and your family first.

And it is not like you are doing something wrong. You use your right to vote for your interest, just like other people use their right to vote for their interest. You have no obligation to hurt your own interest for the sake of others.

The difference between nice people and selfish people is that nice people are willing to help strangers, while selfish people will only help themselves and their families. Most of the evil in this world is nothing more than the result of selfish behavior.

[Tadhg]

I graduated from high school in 2008. Didn't feel like going to college and now work part-time once in a while and help out my family.

The BMV in my state requires a birth certificate, a Social Security card, proof of financial security or competence (i.e. a tax report or a bank account statement), and a current address statement.

I can get three of those easily. It's the first one that's a doozy, especially since my county's health department closed their only office that allowed one to get a birth certificate without ID (or a relative with an ID) over a year ago and speaking to represenatives only gave me generic rhetoric that I was trying to explain why I need one (I even swore at one of them in frustration).

It sucks, because I was really hoping to head to the polls and vote. Unfortunately, if you live in the state of Indiana and you are a Democrat (especially a liberal like me), it's annoying because, as I said either earlier in this thread of the Republican complaints thread that most Republicans win just by showing up, which is why we'll elect a partisan governor who will enforce his moral beliefs a week after his inaguration, and we'll once again be a rubber stamp for the GOP candidate.

I was referring to getting a birth certificate. You can get your birth certificate without Picture ID by mailing the State Vital Records office as opposed to your county.

http://www.in.gov/isdh/20444.htm

It's too late in regards to this election, but I would still suggest you get it.

[7thangel]

here's the thing, Romney is set to break records on the white vote, especially middle class and low income white males. that choice is not in the best interest financially for the majority of them, even if you believe that the debate Moderate Mitt is the real Mitt. but he can be when it comes to cultural/social issues. they can set things back to how things are supposed to be.

[kane]

The difference between nice people and selfish people is that nice people are willing to help strangers, while selfish people will only help themselves and their families. Most of the evil in this world is nothing more than the result of selfish behavior.

There is a difference between helping someone besides your family and yourself and helping someone at the cost of your family and yourself. Blood is thicker than water, friends are more important than strangers etc. I am willing to help strangers, but within limits. Everyone has to decide for himself where his limit lies.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

So again, when civil rights/social issues are on the line, it's clear that many Americans will disregard it in order to make their lives easier. Exactly what Shellhead, Vibranium and I have been talking about.


I'm not hearing any suitable excuse for this. It's an outright "we don't give a fuck about you minorities" sentiment. It may not be "as clear" when it comes to women (though I think it is), and frankly, the relationship between the US and the poor within it's country has been bad for a very very long time so I'm not even going to bring that up.

But this one? It's pretty damn clear.

[the4thpip]

Gay Broadway personality Max von Essen put it very well on his facebook page a couple of weeks ago:

I know there are important issues involved in this campaign. I know people are suffering and the economy has not improved at a rate we all wish it would. Yes, people are suffering but the gay and lesbian community has been suffering for hundreds of years and I am so tired of it. So tired of feeling that I am less than. So tired of knowing I have friends on here who will vote for someone who will keep me a second class citizen for my entire lifetime. I have already spent half a lifetime hiding, half a lifetime conforming. It is exhausting, demeaning and I am worn out. I want to love myself full out. I want a president who can look me in the eye and say ‘You are equal!’ ‘You are equal to everyone else in this country and I will fight for your rights. The time is now and it is long overdue.’ Romney and Ryan could not look me in the eye and say that and I feel sorry for every gay and questioning child who might have to listen to a president who believes that he/she is not equal. Children will take their lives. It is the WORST form of trickle down bullying and it absolutely splits my heart in half. When the president says you are less than, it gives permission to every authority figure, every politician, every teacher, every bully on the playground to push you around and bully you and treat you less than. It is dangerous and lives will be lost.

If this is not important to you, please remove me from your friends list. I need people in my life who love me and consider me 100% equal.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/1...him/?mobile=nc

[the4thpip]

So again, when civil rights/social issues are on the line, it's clear that many Americans will disregard it in order to make their lives easier. Exactly what Shellhead, Vibranium and I have been talking about.


I'm not hearing any suitable excuse for this. It's an outright "we don't give a fuck about you minorities" sentiment. It may not be "as clear" when it comes to women (though I think it is), and frankly, the relationship between the US and the poor within it's country has been bad for a very very long time so I'm not even going to bring that up.

But this one? It's pretty damn clear.

Remember the "I got mine" attitude of many tea baggers protesting health care reform? One woman actually said something like "there just aren't enough doctors to treat all those people."