Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[Matt Algren]

Here's interview B-roll from that video I posted a few days ago. Interviewer is so awesome that I want to make out with him. It could totes happen, too, since he's from my area (like, literally 10 miles away).

[Tar22]

Don't forget the belief that persisted until the 70s in the church that Black people were hated by God due to being descendants of Cain and having the Curse of Ham(no, not pork).

Not exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism

"In 1954, Church President David O. McKay taught: 'There is not now, and there never has been a doctrine in this church that the negroes are under a divine curse. There is no doctrine in the church of any kind pertaining to the negro. We believe that we have a scriptural precedent for withholding the priesthood from the negro. It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice someday will be changed. And that's all there is to it.’"

[Shellhead]

Given that the outcome in Ohio is crucial to the overall presidential election this year, I'm worried about the provisional ballot issue in Ohio:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news...id=msnhp&pos=1

"The background: in an effort to impose uniformity, GOP Secretary of State Jon Husted over the summer directed that absentee ballot applications be mailed out to all of the state’s 6.9 million registered voters -- regardless of whether they had asked for them or not.

"About 1.3 million voters filled out those applications and received absentee ballots in the mail. But as of this weekend, 238,678 voters who got absentee ballots had not returned them. If those voters don’t return their ballots by mail by tomorrow and try to go to the polls on Tuesday instead, they along with others whose eligibility could be questioned or who show up at the wrong polling station, will have to cast provisional ballots to make sure they haven’t vote twice. And under Ohio law, those ballots can’t even be counted until Nov. 16, ten days after Election Day."

Nate Silver's makes it look like Obama can win without Ohio at this point, but I'm not convinced that Obama will be winning Colorado and Virginia. Take those two states and Ohio out of the picture, and Obama has 263 electoral votes while Romney has 257. Will the race be called based on those totals? Or will we all need to wait until Ohio is counted because it has enough votes to swing the outcome? And will the Supreme Court intercede again, making their 9 votes more important than those of all the voters?

[Nick Soapdish]

Here's interview B-roll from that video I posted a few days ago. Interviewer is so awesome that I want to make out with him. It could totes happen, too, since he's from my area (like, literally 10 miles away).

So Dan Cathy got struck down by God (according to the Asian-American interviewee)? I hadn't heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Gryphon]

Has there been one of those cartoon news bits from Taiwan, that discusses the US election?

[7thangel]

Not exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism

"In 1954, Church President David O. McKay taught: 'There is not now, and there never has been a doctrine in this church that the negroes are under a divine curse. There is no doctrine in the church of any kind pertaining to the negro. We believe that we have a scriptural precedent for withholding the priesthood from the negro. It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice someday will be changed. And that's all there is to it.’"

not exactly what?

the belief that the blackness was a marker for the sin they committed before they were born/resurrected, which they could only escape through death after being good mormons and being resurrected/born white? (a very simplified version of the nonsense Young and the church preached). McKay was an anomaly.

[Nick Soapdish]

Not exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism

"In 1954, Church President David O. McKay taught: 'There is not now, and there never has been a doctrine in this church that the negroes are under a divine curse. There is no doctrine in the church of any kind pertaining to the negro. We believe that we have a scriptural precedent for withholding the priesthood from the negro. It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice someday will be changed. And that's all there is to it.’"

Brigham Young seems to disagree with McKay, but perhaps that's quibbling over the difference between doctrine and belief.

Young responded, "The Lord had cursed Cain’s seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood."

[Gryphon]

Brigham Young seems to disagree with McKay, but perhaps that's quibbling over the difference between doctrine and belief.

Young responded, "The Lord had cursed Cain’s seed with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood."

I know there was an offshoot that was very supportive of racial tolerance and equality but I can't remember what its name is or where I heard of it.


Edit:
Its The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_...(Bickertonite)

Apparently Alice Cooper was a member when he was young, which is how I heard about it.

[KiFF86]

Here's interview B-roll from that video I posted a few days ago. Interviewer is so awesome that I want to make out with him. It could totes happen, too, since he's from my area (like, literally 10 miles away).

Yeah the guy in the A&F shirt is totally gay; he is just waiting for the chance to come out.

[Slam_Bradley]

Not exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism

"In 1954, Church President David O. McKay taught: 'There is not now, and there never has been a doctrine in this church that the negroes are under a divine curse. There is no doctrine in the church of any kind pertaining to the negro. We believe that we have a scriptural precedent for withholding the priesthood from the negro. It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice someday will be changed. And that's all there is to it.’"

He can protest all he wants. They were teaching exactly that in church and seminary as late as the mid-70s.

[Tar22]

not exactly what?

That "Black people were hated by God." I felt that was an exaggeration of the actual Mormon doctrine.

[7thangel]

That "Black people were hated by God." I felt that was an exaggeration of the actual Mormon doctrine.

but it was not. if you were born black it meant you sinned pre-birth and had to wait until resurrection to correct your error of sin and be born white and wholesome.

it should be noted that the priesthood change, prophecies or not, didn't change this belief in many mormons that were indoctrinated to this belief. something that was recognized as an issue by those in the church that were fighting to change the belief

[kmeyers]

but it was not. if you were born black it meant you sinned pre-birth and had to wait until resurrection to correct your error of sin and be born white and wholesome.

it should be noted that the priesthood change, prophecies or not, didn't change this belief in many mormons that were indoctrinated to this belief. something that was recognized as an issue by those in the church that were fighting to change the belief

Well that, and the only reason they even changed it at all was because they would have lost their tax exempt status because of that doctrine.

So apparently $$$ > "God's word"

[Spike-X]

US politics confound me. How can Obama and Romney be neck and neck in the polls when the electorate includes women, non-whites and non-rich people?

There are too many women out there who believe that not only should they not have the right to make their own decisions, but that no other woman should either.

[Gryphon]

There are too many women out there who believe that not only should they not have the right to make their own decisions, but that no other woman should either.

Has he actually said he would outlaw abortion?