Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[Nick Soapdish]

Um...

But Kosman, the book author, argues that the debt acquired under Bain was the overriding problem.

"After quickly raising profits, (Bain) had the company, less than one year after the buyout, borrow another $61 million to pay themselves a dividend. This left little room for error as profit, $32 million in 1995, could barely cover the increased interest expenses, rising from $9 million to $24 million," Kosman told us in an email.

"Even when profits fell below interest payments in 1998 and 1999 due to cheap imports, there was enough operating profit to survive if not for the interest expense."

In its 2001 bankruptcy filing, GS Industries listed total debts of $554 million.

Those numbers don't seem quite right. An additional $61 million in debt resulted in an additional $15 million in interest for the next year? And it's barely more than 10% of the total debt at the time of bankruptcy. Seems like an awful big snowball effect.

ETA: Went back and read the link and see where a lot more of the debt came from.

[Winslow]

Um...

But Kosman, the book author, argues that the debt acquired under Bain was the overriding problem.

"After quickly raising profits, (Bain) had the company, less than one year after the buyout, borrow another $61 million to pay themselves a dividend. This left little room for error as profit, $32 million in 1995, could barely cover the increased interest expenses, rising from $9 million to $24 million," Kosman told us in an email.

"Even when profits fell below interest payments in 1998 and 1999 due to cheap imports, there was enough operating profit to survive if not for the interest expense."

In its 2001 bankruptcy filing, GS Industries listed total debts of $554 million.

I don't know enough about leverage buyouts to figure out what's going on. It makes business sense to pay out dividends to investors to attract more investors for a struggling business (as the POlitifact article states). It makes no sense if the business was already turning a profit (as Kosman alleges).


So maybe there is some truth to corporate raiding. Clarifying the above fact discrepancies would be helpful.

By the way, I hate it when posts start with um.

[7thangel]

It was snark. It was unhelpful so I edited it out.

You can read here:

Obama ad claims Romney, Bain left misery in wake of GST Steel takeover

I think the "mostly true rating" is generous, since the plant tanked from steel prices falling, not from Romny's coprorate raiding (as the Obama ad implies). The steel plant was already failing before the buy out.

no offense, but politifact has been more than suspect for more than a year, where outright lies are called somewhat true, truth being called false, etc. so even if it strays more to what i'm saying, i don't give them much respect.

[Jeff Brady]

Yep, Politifact is rather disreputable now. Rachel Maddow has frequent segments outlining their stupidity.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I don't know enough about leverage buyouts to figure out what's going on. It makes business sense to pay out dividends to investors to attract more investors for a struggling business (as the POlitifact article states). It makes no sense if the business was already turning a profit (as Kosman alleges).


So maybe there is some truth to corporate raiding. Clarifying the above fact discrepancies would be helpful.

By the way, I hate it when posts start with um.

The thing that strikes me about it is that, corporate raiding or not, it was just bad management. They took on a large amount of debt and used too much of that to pay dividends for themselves and shareholders, instead of putting it aside for a potential downturn. When that happened it was too late and the interest on the debt acquired to turn a quick profit dragged the company down.

[Winslow]

I retract my evaluation of Mayor Cory Booker. He is coming across as a bumbling rookie politician trying to carve out a maverick name for himself.

no offense, but politifact has been more than suspect for more than a year, where outright lies are called somewhat true, truth being called false, etc. so even if it strays more to what i'm saying, i don't give them much respect.

No offense taken. God, I hope I am not coming across as thin skinned. I am very tired.

Yep, Politifact is rather disreputable now. Rachel Maddow has frequent segments outlining their stupidity.

Probably posting incomplete reports due to underfunded staff (total guess on my part).

Is Factcheck any better? I get the two confused.

The thing that strikes me about it is that, corporate raiding or not, it was just bad management. They took on a large amount of debt and used too much of that to pay dividends for themselves and shareholders, instead of putting it aside for a potential downturn. When that happened it was too late and the interest on the debt acquired to turn a quick profit dragged the company down.

I'm not sure it's bad management when money is cheap (interest rates are low) and the stock market is paying out big. That is, it's a bull market.

The whole corporate raiding thing and the assault on the equity shell game is above my head. And I used to work with insurance companies and construction bonding companies all the time as well as calculate home office overhead markups. It's a difficult political message because the accounting isn't simple so the message isn't simple.

[worstblogever]

Nice article covering some of the dishonesty coming out of the mouth of Mittington Romneyforth IV.


http://groobiecat.blogspot.com/2012/...-election.html

[FalconX2000]

Blacks from Chris Rock and Jay Z to the NAACP and Jesse Jackson have all publicly backed gay marriage in recent days. Kinda heartening to see this kind of surge of solidarity/advancing under political cover on this issue.

[longdecember]

It's funny becasue of the hint of Monty Python level insanity in it.

The monty python rabbit was not an ordinardy rabbit. He was a Bug(s)by level rabbit. I see the same signs in mittens. In my life I will never understand why romney pays 14% and I pay 35%. Obamas only flaw is that he put a tax cheat incharge of the IRS, but again Romney pays 14% single moms pay between 20-25% and the american people entertain this stuff. But I have an IQ that make rabbits pee in their pants and FART!

If you are from canada, you can not coment on this thread untill you put charles on your currency.

EDIT: This is way a real man edits, The canadaian currency has QE2 on it, It does not have prince charles on it. Also Canadaians are the first people to question barack hussien obama's citizenship. I have posted on this board for 10 years and honestly I blame the birthers in canada. Canadians are birthers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_dollar

[snarkbunny]

If you are from canada, you can not coment on this thread untill you put charles on your currency.

EDIT: This is way a real man edits, The canadaian currency has QE2 on it, It does not have prince charles on it. Also Canadaians are the first people to question barack hussien obama's citizenship. I have posted on this board for 10 years and honestly I blame the birthers in canada. Canadians are birthers.

Well we issued a coin with Prince Charles on it in 2011, and yes it is legal currency.

But where did you get the idea that a Canadian started the birther silliness?

[longdecember]

Well we issued a coin with Prince Charles on it in 2011, and yes it is legal currency.

But where did you get the idea that a Canadian started the birther silliness?

He did not. But Violence goes with birthright? I am a CBR paraiah, but I never saw true violence untill Mitt Romney said single moms should pay 20-25% while he paid 14%. Where do these people come from if not Canada? And their currency? If you can defend Romney I might buy some coins.

[Darrell D.]

Well, that was a post that is by no means devoid of content.

[Spike-X]

But where did you get the idea that a Canadian started the birther silliness?

Probably the same voices in his head that he gets the rest of his ideas from.

[snarkbunny]

He did not. But Violence goes with birthright? I am a CBR paraiah, but I never saw true violence untill Mitt Romney said single moms should pay 20-25% while he paid 14%. Where do these people come from if not Canada? And their currency? If you can defend Romney I might buy some coins.

Uh, I'm reading the words but I don't think I'm understanding exactly what you mean.

Which people are you referring to here?

Where do these people come from if not Canada?

Also, if you want to buy Canadian coins, I would have suggested the glow-in-the-dark dinosaur one, but it's sold out unfortunately. I'm thinking about the fine solver loonie, it is just a lovely bit of art.

[longdecember]

Is is acceptable to punch Canadnian currency in the face of charles,Qe2. But at the same time question Barracks legitimacy?

This is the question about the election in 2012. Barrack may not be a natural born citizen. But he is not a bully like romney. If you dont have a monarch on your currenecy please vote for Obama. We will have a new person in charge of the IRS and there is no need to see decreped old men like Romney, Charles and longdecember "duke"ing it out.

Is Iangold banned? EDIT are we suposed to go back to rumblers.