Between Barack and a Hard Place: Ultimate US Elections 2012 Thread

[the4thpip]

The fuss over banning or limiting Partial Birth abortions, the Demcratic defense of that is the best weapon the anti-abortion folks have.

Only if you refuse to look at the medical facts, of course.

[Paul McEnery]

Only if you refuse to look at the medical facts, of course.

Or the political facts.

[Shellhead]

These Republican debates are like hobo boxing for liberals. They don't really care who wins, they just want to see the opponents hurt each other.

[Darrell D.]

These Republican debates are like hobo boxing for liberals. They don't really care who wins, they just want to see the opponents hurt each other.

I love them.
The crazies (Perry, Bachmann).
The 'I'm a radical, no not really, I'm just completely out of touch' (Paul, Cain).
The 'Who?' (Huntsman, Johnson).
They all will eventually have to leave to lick their wounds, leaving the very boring and unelectable Romney.

[finfangfool]

I think his being boring is why he's very electable. He has experience as a Governor, he has experience in the private sector, he's pretty centrist when you look at how he's governed (in comparison to what you're likely to get from the other major candidates), and he can turn some purple or blue states red. Sadly I think my state will vote for him this time around.

Add that to the still-poor economy and the continuing wars, and I think Romney would have a fairly easy time of it (provided he picked a good running mate, he'd be best off not picking any of the other people currently running). He's the one who scares me most (as a Democrat). I think with Perry you could just throw up things like the secession talk and the refusal to take stimulus money, then the flip-flop, and make some comparisons to the last good ol' boy from Texas and that'd be all she wrote. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, but I believe it.

[Darrell D.]

I think his being boring is why he's very electable. He has experience as a Governor, he has experience in the private sector, he's pretty centrist when you look at how he's governed (in comparison to what you're likely to get from the other major candidates), and he can turn some purple or blue states red. Sadly I think my state will vote for him this time around.

Add that to the still-poor economy and the continuing wars, and I think Romney would have a fairly easy time of it (provided he picked a good running mate, he'd be best off not picking any of the other people currently running). He's the one who scares me most (as a Democrat). I think with Perry you could just throw up things like the secession talk and the refusal to take stimulus money, then the flip-flop, and make some comparisons to the last good ol' boy from Texas and that'd be all she wrote. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, but I believe it.

Perry is already dropping in the polls thanks to his (perceived) weak stance on Immigration and the HPV vaccine issue. The positions he holds on those are somewhat rational, but they seem to cross the new Tea Party conservative line in the sand.
Romney is boring and is actually less centrist than many would think, and of course, the stupid comments (corporations are people! I am worth 250 million, but I am still 'middle class') turn off the old school Republicans and Independents. The Tea Party types are wary of him as well (he's a Morman AND an Intellectual), no matter how hard he tries to play to their base.
At this point, the Repubs need someone like Guliani or Christie.

[finfangfool]

I do hope you're right about Romney. I heard Obama give a speech the other day and it annoyed me. I voted for the man, gave money to the campaign, even volunteered to help out (never did get a call back after signing up, just a bunch of e-mails asking for more money but that's another issue), but hearing him get fired up while delivering a speech (granted, one of his strong points) didn't inspire me. It just reminded me of all that tough talk before he became President, and served as a contrast to his actions while in that office (especially the parts where he gave the other side everything it wanted in a debate, then retreated further back from his position as it went on). If he could govern with half as much passion and determination as he gives his speeches they'd be carving his likeness into Mount Rushmore.

[FalconX2000]

I do hope you're right about Romney. I heard Obama give a speech the other day and it annoyed me. I voted for the man, gave money to the campaign, even volunteered to help out (never did get a call back after signing up, just a bunch of e-mails asking for more money but that's another issue), but hearing him get fired up while delivering a speech (granted, one of his strong points) didn't inspire me. It just reminded me of all that tough talk before he became President, and served as a contrast to his actions while in that office (especially the parts where he gave the other side everything it wanted in a debate, then retreated further back from his position as it went on). If he could govern with half as much passion and determination as he gives his speeches they'd be carving his likeness into Mount Rushmore.

Since he's currently campaigning on a specific bill he's trying to get Congress to pass, I'd say he is being passionate about governing right now.

[Shellhead]

Actually, modern western armies pretty much without exception actively encourage soldiers to disobey orders they believe to be unlawful.

talk to anyone who's served in the last 30 years or so.

That's crap, at least with respect to the United States. I'm sure there are good intentions, but basic training emphasizes obedience and discourages individuality. And look at Gitmo. The U.S. wouldn't be able to keep that place staffed if soldiers were actively encouraged to disobey unlawful orders. Prisoner abuse is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention, which makes it a war crime in the eyes of all modern western nations.

Of course, the U.S. didn't formally declare war on Iraq or Afghanistan, so it's questionable that we even have a lawful basis for detaining citizens of either country. I understand that we can't simply wait for the next 9/11 attacks to happen, but don't expect me to believe that modern soldiers are too well-trained to follow unlawful orders. Many of them have been doing it for years now without objection.

[mikekerrIII]

.
At this point, the Repubs need someone like Guliani or Christie.

Both of those are far too liberal on things that the Tea-baggers think are important to survive the primary cycle.

[mikekerrIII]

That's crap, at least with respect to the United States. I'm sure there are good intentions, but basic training emphasizes obedience and discourages individuality. And look at Gitmo. The U.S. wouldn't be able to keep that place staffed if soldiers were actively encouraged to disobey unlawful orders. Prisoner abuse is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention, which makes it a war crime in the eyes of all modern western nations.

Of course, the U.S. didn't formally declare war on Iraq or Afghanistan, so it's questionable that we even have a lawful basis for detaining citizens of either country. I understand that we can't simply wait for the next 9/11 attacks to happen, but don't expect me to believe that modern soldiers are too well-trained to follow unlawful orders. Many of them have been doing it for years now without objection.

Source or it's bullshit.

[dupersuper]

I love them.
The crazies (Perry, Bachmann).
The 'I'm a radical, no not really, I'm just completely out of touch' (Paul, Cain).
The 'Who?' (Huntsman, Johnson).

Don't forget the santorum (Santorum)

[Spike-X]

Source or it's bullshit.

You might have heard of a little place called Abu Ghraib?

[Darrell D.]

Don't forget the santorum (Santorum)

Feh, Santorum is officially the punchline of a joke. A very funny joke, and one he brought on himself with his bigoted views.

[finfangfool]

As far as Obama being passionate right now about a specific bill, he's already stated on the record that he'd be willing to sign "parts of the bill" and work from there. Never mind that it's hardly enough to fix the problem of the unemployment rate if it were passed wholesale tomorrow, and focuses again on tax breaks and temporary construction jobs (granted, with our crumbling infrastructure jobs that need to be done but nothing that will lead to a lifelong career for anyone). He's already laying down, and the fight hasn't even begun. His only hope is for a Perry resurgence (and even that won't guarantee a win).