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  1. #46
    Blue Captain bluetyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBeast View Post
    When I read a real comic that's printed on paper, the experience is obviously more "special". The experience seems to "last" and stay with me far longer than when I bring up a digital comic and click my way through it. Seriously, none of you digital utopians notice this? Are you all on consciousness-dampening drugs or something? Have you been diagnosed with any mental impairments? How can you guys not notice the difference? I can only conclude that your attention spans and reading aptitudes have been lowered somehow.

    -- That is your own flaws you are talking about, not everybody else. This difference does not exist for everyone. You make a gross generalisation from your own experience.

    And this is not some touchy-feeling argument I'm making. I'm not talking about "the smell of the paper" or anything like that. I'm talking about cold hard quantifiable evidence. MANY studies have been done on this. Digital reading comprehension scores are demonstrably lower in every study.

    -- Because people read comics to be tested on them? What was on the 17th page of the 47th novel you read?

    Everyone who does that knows that you notice more spelling mistakes when you print the essay out and read it that way. You also can get "into" the material more when you print it out.

    -- Hey, another ridiculous generalisation.


    Yes, absolutely. Except it's too bad that we've raised a generation and a half now who don't even understand what "local" is anymore, so they have no idea how to value it. It's like they're subconsciously trained to love "global" and glance suspiciously at "local". They're defamiliarized from their surroundings. Their culture is artificial and doesn't impact their souls--as if they didn't have souls to begin with, or as if they didn't know they had souls, or know how to feel their souls and perceive that the people around them were real living beings with souls as well.

    -- And again, there are people who don't believe in your soul malarkey. You are claiming the consumption of Disney products makes you soulless then? ;-)


    They clamor for digital comics, but that's not enough for them. They want digital comics at $0.99. They don't fully understand what it means--or what the ramifications are--to reduce the value of a comic, but they want comics to be reduced in value, in every sense of the word. They want to roll back the cost of a comic to pre-1990 levels, even though a buck in 1990 had much more buying power than it does today. But they see no problem here, no disjuncture in logic. All they can do is repeat the mantra that they think "$0.99 is a good price because comics used to cost a buck."

    -- You are more than likely a cheapskate yourself, never volunteering to pay $6 or $7 for 22 pages of Batman comic.

    Or they think that comics are $2.99 - what is the next obvious price from a business point of view? Oh, yes, it is OBVIOUSLY $3.99. Everything goes up in price by 33% at a time. Comics are significantly worse value for money now than they used to be. This is a fact.



    And if you ask them, they'll tell you that they hardly ever even reread their comics anymore. They just want that constant stream of "the new"--their new digital drug--every week. And if you ask them, these are people who hardly even remember what they read anymore.

    -- If everyone just reread all their old comics all the time, almost all your comic shops would be toast. If you have read so little that you remember every single thing you have ever read you are likely very slow or a very poor reader or don't read much, or all of the former, so I would have to doubt any reading aptitude claims.


    Listen to their podcasts. Half of their conversations are about how they can't remember exactly what happened in the books they read that week. Some of them admit that they have to do their podcasts within three days of reading a comic, because otherwise they'll forget all about it. They often say, with each forthcoming issue, that they don't even remember what happened in the previous issue. They're literally losing their ability to remember, and their ability to think critically, but they don't really even seem to notice this or to mind. "Oh well, that's just the way it goes. I can't remember anything anymore or read anything with a critical eye. You know what I need? More digital drugs that will help me remember even less."

    -- Mediocre fiction isn't worth wasting your time remembering, to start with.

    This is the future, and it does seem inevitable. People whose attention spans have been compressed into nothing, who feel no guilt about destroying the industry they're addicted to. They don't value the industry but they're addicted to it, so they'll tear it down in the name of some sort of "progress", which in the end will leave them in a complete cultural wasteland. But by then they'll be too dumbed down to notice.

    -- Actually, the disappearance of what you state would have zero effect on my local culture. Would even leave it a little better off.

  2. #47
    Blue Captain bluetyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
    Comics look BETTER on a screen. The colors are bright and vibrant. Even B&W comics look better.
    Sure. Batwoman Elegy stories look way better at Comixology than the trade I received recently.

  3. #48
    New Member BoozerX's Avatar
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    Another crybaby article.
    Digital is the norm just live with it, or close.
    And you should be grateful to DC for put the price in digital at the same level than paper.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavenProject View Post
    I've asked my LCS to sign up for this service.

    I will be buying comics through Comixology as soon as I get a tablet, no later than Christmas. Some of these will be New 52 books I'm willing to wait a month for to get a discount. Some of these will be "sale books" offered at a particularly great price. Some of these will be books that pique my interest but my LCS may not stock, and I'm not willing to wait two weeks or so to get it.

    Without this service, my LCS doesn't see a dime of that money.

    With this service, they get fifteen to thirty percent of that money.

    I understand the misgivings you have about the deal, Brian. But in a situation like the one I just described, do you think it's rational for a retailer to leave money on the table?

    -J
    Personally? Yes.

    Whatever the sum of money might or might not be, it's a lousy lousy contract which binds the retailer, and leaves comiXology free to do whatever they want, however they want. I personally and individually think that a retailer would have to be a fool to sign that deal.

    I DO think (as I've not only said in this column, but in several others in the past) that I think digital can be a wonderful thing, and that Direct Market retailers would be wise to be involved with it -- but this specific deal is such an incredible pile of shit, I'd certainly rather leave the money on the table than to bind myself to it.

    I'll also note that, as the deal is currently structured, depending on what or how you buy comics, it is entirely possible that your retailer could end up receiving nothing for signing themselves up -- retailers won't get paid until over $100 has been accumulated. If what you buy is 99 cent non-DC comics, then the retailer doesn't get paid even a single penny until the SIX HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-FOURTH comic is sold.


    -B

  5. #50

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    The thing is though, comixology does not need the lcs.

    Anyone can buy digital comics either via their app or on their site.

    Anyone going via an lcs storeFront would presumably be an existing customer of that lcs, converting to digital, but showing their loyalty to the lcs by ensuring they get a piece of the pie.

    If the lcs did not have a store front then they would just go to comixology directly, bypassing the lcs.

    Also bear in mind that comixology does most of the work, they provide and maintain:
    The online store
    Servers to store comics and process orders

    For their 15 cents the lcs just needs to add a link to their website.
    Not bad

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by antfromdudley View Post

    For their 15 cents the lcs just needs to add a link to their website.
    Not bad
    It takes more than a link. As Brian noted, they won't get paid until they make a lot of sales. Which means aggressively marketing digital to their own customers, which could cost them more in paper sales than the storefront brings in. Why should a store bother? Plus the store can't be customized, so it doesn't offer an experience any different than Comics.ComiXology.com. So really, it's a low paid attempt to get retailers to promote ComiXology, instead of focusing on their own shops.

    I love ComiXology, and I'll keep buying from them. But if I owned a comics shop I don't think I'd sign on with ComiXology either.
    -Goodman


    Comics reader since 1974. Now purchasing 100% of my comics digitally.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistergoodman View Post
    It takes more than a link. As Brian noted, they won't get paid until they make a lot of sales. Which means aggressively marketing digital to their own customers, which could cost them more in paper sales than the storefront brings in. Why should a store bother? Plus the store can't be customized, so it doesn't offer an experience any different than Comics.ComiXology.com. So really, it's a low paid attempt to get retailers to promote ComiXology, instead of focusing on their own shops.

    I love ComiXology, and I'll keep buying from them. But if I owned a comics shop I don't think I'd sign on with ComiXology either.
    It is a bad deal and I wouldn't take it either. They should try to get some kind of renegotiation or something before they take that deal. However...as far as why should a store bother? To stay in business, of course. If Digital is where it's going (I actually shouldn't say if), then the LCS needs to figure out how to get a piece of that action. Evolve or die.

    Me personally? My connection with any of the LCS in my city died in my mid-twenties. WHy? Because no one talks comics at the shop anymore. Not just comics, but just general friendly banter. When I was a kid, folks actually hung out at comics stores. It was fun. All the stuff we do on forums/websites we used to do in the stores. Except now when you go to the store, it's just...different. Cold. It's not because I'm in my mid-30s either. Most LCS just aren't as inviting as they were back in the day. I quit regularly going to the comic store around 2003 or so and when I do pay a visit, I get in/get out...get my books and get the **** out of dodge. Occasionally I'll ask a few questions about upcoming comics and such, knowing they're just going to get irritated because...they have to do their job? And then they sit and wonder why no one comes and visits?

    As far where will people find their comics if the LCS goes under? Online and forums. Isn't this how we find out a majority of what's coming out anyways? Talking to others on a forum somewhere? I certainly don't find out anything from my LCS. So for me, it's not exactly "good riddance" but I'm perfectly happy going completely digital. I like the idea of having my collection available to me at all times, wherever I go. And with three growing kids, I definetly look forward to the soon to be free space.

    And lastly, in regards to print vs digital quality, digital by a mile. I draw myself, both traditionally and digital and BOTH ways look better on a screen (any screen, laptop, PC, TV, e-reader, etc) than on paper. No matter how high a quality print you can make, it's never a perfect presentation of the art. Ever. Earlier I was going to mention that the only comics I wouldn't want to see on a e-reader/digitally would be oversized books or maybe artbooks but then I got to thinking how much I like reading my comics on my laptop at screen width and that made me change my mind about that as well. Oh, yeah, to all the anti-digital guys, on a laptop, you can view the comic art at roughly the size it was originally created at (depending on the size of your laptop screen anyways...mine is almost 11 inches so it's like looking at the 10x15 or 11x17 artboard itself, fully inked and colored). Man, it looks so much better bigger, tho' since I'm used to reading manga books, a 7 inch screen is fine for me when I read 'em on my e-reader.

  8. #53
    Old Curmudgeon Comics OldCurmudgeonComics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poneley View Post
    But Brian, it makes NO SENSE AT ALL for DC or Marvel to not do digital day and date. Getting upset about this is like getting upset that Marvel wants to sell books through amazon or some other channel that is not the LCS. It's criminally stupid for publishers to ignore a sales channel for the sake of a different sales channel. And as much as I love and adore my LCS and I want them to succeed forever and ever (and I say those words genuinely), you basically have to "deal with it." At the end of the day, digital is your competitor and that's it.

    Folks want digital day and date. I'll repeat it's criminally stupid for publishers to ignore a sales channel for the sake of a different sales channel.
    I'd like to make three points regarding this topic.

    First, the main thrust of Brian's article was regarding the egregious terms Comixology is mandating to the DM retailers, if those retailers wish to help grow the digital business by promoting, what is essentially a direct competitor, through the retailer's business. Let me rephrase that, not only a direct competitor, but one who sells the same essential product at a lower price after a month.

    What businessperson in his right mind would cultivate a clientele over many years only to serve up, not only that clientele's business but their personal information as well to a direct competitor? The terms are all stick without the carrot on the end.

    Second, poneley, you state that " At the end of the day, digital is your competitor and that's it". That's a true statement. Evidently, what you're failing to realize is that there's absolutely no reason for the DM retailers to be the marketing and advertising arm for our direct competitors. There has to be something in it for retailers as well, and not something that can be pulled out from underneath us on a whim.

    Third, I've seen multiple comparisons of digital comics to digital music. Here is my take on it: When you purchase an MP3 for download to your computer, let's say, you own that song. You can turn it into a physical object by burning it to a CD and you can enjoy that piece of music for as long as you have that clean, physical object.

    When you purchase a digital comic for your computer, you don't own a darn thing. You haven't downloaded it. You can't turn that digital comic into a physical object. You can't print it out or turn it into a PDF. You are limited to when you can read that book, since you need an internet connection to get to it. You are at the mercy of that company and any future owners of that company to supply you access to that product. And that's not even in the event that, god forbid, Comixology goes out of business.

    In terms of downloaded product for your tablet or phone, you still have limitations. Each purchase allows you to download your digital comic 3 times. Screen size, memory space, battery charge and overall reliability also limit your access, because everyone knows these gadgets don't break or have their memory wiped.

    What you're really doing is renting the comic. Which is fine, I suppose. Hmmm, I wonder if setting up a reading room where customers could read the "store copy" of a book for $1.99 a crack for new books and $.99 per book after the book's been out for a month...

    Thanks for your time.
    Last edited by OldCurmudgeonComics; 08-28-2011 at 08:00 AM.

  9. #54
    Old Curmudgeon Comics OldCurmudgeonComics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavenProject View Post
    I've asked my LCS to sign up for this service.

    I will be buying comics through Comixology as soon as I get a tablet, no later than Christmas. Some of these will be New 52 books I'm willing to wait a month for to get a discount. Some of these will be "sale books" offered at a particularly great price. Some of these will be books that pique my interest but my LCS may not stock, and I'm not willing to wait two weeks or so to get it.

    Without this service, my LCS doesn't see a dime of that money.

    With this service, they get fifteen to thirty percent of that money.

    I understand the misgivings you have about the deal, Brian. But in a situation like the one I just described, do you think it's rational for a retailer to leave money on the table?

    -J
    J, you do realize that a) your LCS isn't going to be around much longer for you to use his website as a portal to get to comixology working on a 15 - 30% margin minus overhead, b) that you can get to comixology directly and c) that, as stated in Brian's article, comixology reserves the right, once you've used the portal, to directly market to you and boot the LCS from the system when comixology feels that they can't squeeze another customer out of the LCS which means you will end up going to comixology in the long run anyway?

  10. #55
    Old Curmudgeon Comics OldCurmudgeonComics's Avatar
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    I suppose in retrospect my posts read rather harsh. I should probably make my overall stance on digital comics clear; I'm all for it. I was extremely excited when Diamond announced that they would be supporting digital comics through their Diamond Digital program.

    I own a small, well-lit, friendly (which belies the name) shop in Iowa. At 300 sq. ft., I have to weigh what takes up shelf space in my store very carefully, so, while I am very happy to special order or pre-order comics for my customers and order copies for myself to read and keep myself informed if ever asked, there are books that I cannot devote space to. That's where digital comics play a part for us.

    Our overall plan for digital was to add a "Red Box-esque" kiosk in the store devoted to digital comics and a link for digital books from Diamond Digital to our website. We'll still more than likely add the link on the website, but not to comixology until the terms are a tad bit more favorable.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurmudgeonComics View Post
    In terms of downloaded product for your tablet or phone, you still have limitations. Each purchase allows you to download your digital comic 3 times. Screen size, memory space, battery charge and overall reliability also limit your access, because everyone knows these gadgets don't break or have their memory wiped.
    Maybe you're referring to something different, but you can download digital comics purchased through comixology apps as many times as you'd like. You can purchase on the web and then download to your ipad or android tablet as well. You can also keep the file on your tablet for as long as you'd like (and access it offline) and then delete it to free up storage space on the tablet; and then re-download when you want to read it again. And if your tablet dies you can still access the comic through comics.comixology.com or through the device you buy to replace the dead tablet. You own the digital comic forever, even if you don't store it locally (on your tablet), but download it from the cloud each time you read it.

    And regarding the screen size issue - you might argue that there's an inherent limitation in the size of comic book pages, since they're always the same; but in fact there's less of a limitation in the actual screen size, since you can zoom in and out (and with the comixology guided view, someone has already gone through the book and set up those zooms).

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurmudgeonComics View Post
    Each purchase allows you to download your digital comic 3 times. Screen size, memory space, battery charge and overall reliability also limit your access, because everyone knows these gadgets don't break or have their memory wiped.
    I wish I knew where this rumor started. It's not true. You can redownload as often as you want, to whatever devices you've got. Hell, they practically encourage it, by giving you an option to automatically delete old comics from your device, in accordance with whatever space limit you decide to give the app. Cloud storage is a beautiful thing.
    -Goodman


    Comics reader since 1974. Now purchasing 100% of my comics digitally.

  13. #58
    Ben L FunkyGreenJerusalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoozerX View Post
    Another crybaby article.
    Digital is the norm just live with it, or close.
    And you should be grateful to DC for put the price in digital at the same level than paper.
    If the Direct Market was to stop selling DC's books, DC would go bankrupt.

    Digital isn't self-sustaining, and it will take a long while for it to be that way.

    So it's very far from the norm.

    Quote Originally Posted by antfromdudley View Post
    The thing is though, comixology does not need the lcs.
    DC needs the LCS's though - they don't currently make close to enough money on digital sales to survive, and they are only hoping for massive influx of digital buyers in September.
    And comixology needs DC - they are the biggest company to commit to the service on such a large scale. This will make or break comixology.
    So if Comixology needs DC, and DC needs the LCS - then comixology needs the LCS.

    For their 15 cents the lcs just needs to add a link to their website.
    Not bad
    No, there's a whole bunch of conditions they have to meet, including signs in their stores, and handing customer information over to comixology.
    And I think it's the latter that makes it such a big deal - customer information, and buying habits, is very valuable information.
    Worth a lot more money in any other industry than comixology is trying to get here, and once Comixology has it, they don't need the LCS - so to hand it over, the LCS is slitting their own wrists for 15cents.
    ADVERTISE HERE!

  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyGreenJerusalem View Post

    DC needs the LCS's though - they don't currently make close to enough money on digital sales to survive, and they are only hoping for massive influx of digital buyers in September.
    And comixology needs DC - they are the biggest company to commit to the service on such a large scale. This will make or break comixology.
    So if Comixology needs DC, and DC needs the LCS - then comixology needs the LCS.
    What I meant was, in order to sell their comics, ComiXology do not need to go via an LCS stroefront.
    They have their own app + website.
    By going through an LCS storefront, they're giving some of their profits to the LCS.

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistergoodman View Post
    I wish I knew where this rumor started. It's not true. You can redownload as often as you want, to whatever devices you've got. Hell, they practically encourage it, by giving you an option to automatically delete old comics from your device, in accordance with whatever space limit you decide to give the app. Cloud storage is a beautiful thing.
    It must the famous internet rumour fairies!!

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