Comparing the Ultimates: Millar, Loeb, Hickman, Humphries

[Robbie_Jee]

They weren't following his commands and they were in the way of him killing Loki.

What commands? Why would he attack them for not following his orders? How were they getting in his way? I'm sure Thor is not the leader of the Ultimates.

[wyokid]

What commands? Why would he attack them for not following his orders? How were they getting in his way? I'm sure Thor is not the leader of the Ultimates.

He came back to life and told Cap to move away from Valkyrie. Cap didn't. Thor attacked. Leader or not, when a god is pissed you do what he says.

[Balfro]

What makes this rather unconvincing is, we clearly see Thor enjoying the sex with Hela, if he truly loved him, shouldn't he feel pain while Hela is humping him?

Thor is a man. Not only that he is probably the most testosterone-filled man on Earth. I can guarantee you that 9 out of 10 men who are talked into sleeping with another woman, even if they completely love their significant other, will enjoy it. It's just nature. Even in their sleep if someone starts fondling a man he... stands attention, if you catch my drift. This is especially the case if the man finds the woman attractive, and even then sometimes it can't be helped.

So if anything I find that scene the most believable because if I picture myself in his position, I wouldn't have a frown on my face either.

[Robbie_Jee]

So why did he attack Ironman with a bolt of lightning?

[wyokid]

So why did he attack Ironman with a bolt of lightning?

People started getting in the way of killing Loki. Zarda got tricked by Loki and saw Thor as Amora, she attacked Thor and so he tried to kill her, Antonio shot the ax in his hands, Thor didn't like that. Thor was being incredibly selfish as well and said that because they couldn't prevent Valkyrie's death they all need to pay.

[striderhirryu2]

I forget, why did Thor attack the Ultimates? Seems silly to me, but I could be wrong. Can anyone explain this?

Loeb needed to write a fight in every issue

[wyokid]

Wowzer! Three pages at the start. Hot damn!

[Plawsky]

The point of the matter, at the moment, isn't just that Loeb's Ultimates stories weren't good. It's that he didn't respect the tradition of what came before. His change to Thor didn't follow what Millar had set up for the past five years. It would be like Dan Slott suddenly making Peter Parker a cold blooded killer. Sure, it could work as a story, but not in 616, where it would go against everything that the continuity before it established. If you want a bloodthirsty, angry god version of Thor, there are plenty of books out there for it. But Ultimate Thor was not that character. Instead, Loeb shoehorned the Thor he wanted to write into a universe where it didn't fit.

Millar, for five years, established that the Ultimates were about a serious, realistic take on classic concepts that depicted the characters in new ways. And because that's what he established, that's what Ultimates should be. Saying that Loeb's mindless action comics are what Ultimates should be is like saying there should be a Godfather part 4 that's a comedy. Comedies, like action stories, can be awesome, but that's not what the Godfather was.

And then, obviously, on top of the abandonment of previous themes and concepts, Loeb's stories weren't good.

[Plawsky]

Going further into the character of Thor...

Millar's Thor was a pacifist, plain and simple. He knew he could kick anyone's ass at any time, but he didn't care. He was only going to step in if he really needed to (or, rather, if the world really needed him to). He was a powerful god who preferred peace. A "pacifist with a big scary hammer."

Loeb, instead, made him all about anger and fighting. There was never a feeling of him thinking about anything else, except the sudden (and still mostly unexplained) love affair with Valkyrie. He said things like "I will have at Magneto," which make no sense with the characterization that came before. And, of course, there's the completely unnecessary (and also mostly unexplained) costume and weapon change.

[wyokid]

I always read the Ultimates was the blockbuster book. Ultimates 2 Volume 2 was my first exposure and it was awesome and non stop fighting. I then excitingly went and read the rest to find boring over-drawn out stories. For me Ultimates is better as an artist's book, Ultimates 2 Volume 2, Ultimates 3, and New Ultimates were absolutely beautifully drawn and they all had huge action scenes. For me Ultimates 3 was continuing what Ultimates 2 volume 2 brought in.

[striderhirryu2]

I always read the Ultimates was the blockbuster book. Ultimates 2 Volume 2 was my first exposure and it was awesome and non stop fighting. I then excitingly went and read the rest to find boring over-drawn out stories. For me Ultimates is better as an artist's book, Ultimates 2 Volume 2, Ultimates 3, and New Ultimates were absolutely beautifully drawn and they all had huge action scenes. For me Ultimates 3 was continuing what Ultimates 2 volume 2 brought in.

Why can't blockbusters have proper dialogue and competent plot progression? They aren't mutually exclusive concepts

[wyokid]

Why can't blockbusters have proper dialogue and competent plot progression? They aren't mutually exclusive concepts

IMO Ultimates 2 Volume 2 had it, Ultimates 3 had it, and New Ultimates had it, I never said they didn't.

[striderhirryu2]

IMO Ultimates 2 Volume 2 had it, Ultimates 3 had it, and New Ultimates had it, I never said they didn't.

You're decrying the other Ultimates volumes because they were "boring over-drawn out stories." Ultimates 1 progression: Origin of Cap, team comes together, Hulk attacks, Jan and Hank fight each other, Cap hospitalizes Hank, aliens attack, Cap and Jan end up together. Proper progression in plot and character work.

Ultimates 3: Venom attacks, Hawkeye attacks Spider-Man, Wanda and Pietro take a walk and she dies, Brotherhood attacks, they go to Savage Land, Ultron kidnaps Jan and gets rescued by Hank, more fighting and some rape implications, Ultron robots attack, Hawkeye apparently kills Quicksilver.

Compare one to the other and Ultimates 3 just reads like a bunch of random shit happening for no reason

[wyokid]

You're decrying the other Ultimates volumes because they were "boring over-drawn out stories." Ultimates 1 progression: Origin of Cap, team comes together, Hulk attacks, Jan and Hank fight each other, Cap hospitalizes Hank, aliens attack, Cap and Jan end up together. Proper progression in plot and character work.

I never said anything about Ultimates 1 I was strictly talking about Ultimates 2 Volume 2.

[striderhirryu2]

I never said anything about Ultimates 1 I was strictly talking about Ultimates 2 Volume 2.

I'm using Ultimates 1 because I read it more recently. I could have easily used Ultimates 2 because it followed a similar cause and effect pattern of plot progression.