Comparing the Ultimates: Millar, Loeb, Hickman, Humphries

[Robbie_Jee]

He saved it by destroying it. I was going to quit before he came along and he changed the rules to what it should have been from the start "things you can't do in 616". Ultimate had slowly been turning into 616.

But it was Loeb that really turned it into 616.

Emo nerd rage.

I'm a little offended by that actually. I'm in no way emo in the slightest and I don't smell like one either. Not that you said I smell. I'd hate to have to tell you to fuck off cuz that'd get me kicked out.

[Drz]

I'm a little offended by that actually. I'm in no way emo in the slightest and I don't smell like one either. Not that you said I smell. I'd hate to have to tell you to fuck off cuz that'd get me kicked out.

Did you think i was talking about you? No, i was talking about Jeph Loeb's Thor. Guy comes back, sees his girlfriend he gladly enjoyed cheating on dead, attacks Captain America because he's holding her corpse, then goes to slaughter Loki's army, Zarda is fooled by Amora to see Thor as Amora so she attacks him, but after she's defeated Thor wants to murder her, why? Thor doesn't do that to heroes, but yeah then Tony and the others just try to get him relaxed and it ultimately works out, but you'd think the Thor we've known for years wouldn't be such an whiny little goat turd.

[Robbie_Jee]

Did you think i was talking about you? No, i was talking about Jeph Loeb's Thor. Guy comes back, sees his girlfriend he gladly enjoyed cheating on dead, attacks Captain America because he's holding her corpse, then goes to slaughter Loki's army, Zarda is fooled by Amora to see Thor as Amora so she attacks him, but after she's defeated Thor wants to murder her, why? Thor doesn't do that to heroes, but yeah then Tony and the others just try to get him relaxed and it ultimately works out, but you'd think the Thor we've known for years wouldn't be such an whiny little goat turd.

OMG my apologies. I'm very sorry about that. Hope we can forget about that and move on.

[Robbie_Jee]

Wyokid. Why are you disappointed with Hickman's first issue? What has Jeph Loeb done that's any better? Just wandering.

[Fizicks]

Wyokid. Why are you disappointed with Hickman's first issue? What has Jeph Loeb done that's any better? Just wandering.

I think because "nothing much happens" and there's no "action" like in Ultimates 3.

I'm also guessing he loves Michael Bay's Transformers series and hates Chris Nolan's Batman series because the former has tons of high scale action and the latter has too much character development and not enough senseless action.

By the way, nice signature

[Drz]

OMG my apologies. I'm very sorry about that. Hope we can forget about that and move on.

I don't know can i ever forgive you for

[Cryptid]

Hickman never met an evil Reed he didn't want to write, huh? I like that he has taken no time at all to graft his own interests to the history of the title. There's political intrigue, but it takes the form of feuding fiefdoms instead of the black-ops betrayals of Millar's run. The scope of the action is appropriately huge, but against fantasy backdrops instead of Hitch's recognizable New York scenery. Then, of course, we have cryptic remarks about the world and the future that point toward the utopian theme that always seems to show up in a Hickman book. I'm in for #2.

[wyokid]

I think because "nothing much happens" and there's no "action" like in Ultimates 3.

I'm also guessing he loves Michael Bay's Transformers series and hates Chris Nolan's Batman series because the former has tons of high scale action and the latter has too much character development and not enough senseless action.

By the way, nice signature

I despise Bay's bastardization creation.
I love Nolan's Batman series.

[wyokid]

Then you shouldn't have read it out of order. Or just go back and read it properly. That's like seeing the end to Planet of the Apes without having seen the first two hours and saying it's stupid that someone is upset about the Statue of Liberty being buried in sand.

I had no choice in the matter. I had to order them from the library and the were all under "Ultimates" so it was a roulette choice.

SOME was picked up on later. A lot of it wasn't, though. And even still, leaving big plot points like that to be picked up on later is just a sign of bad writing. Valkyrie was shown to have powers and be in a relationship with Thor out of nowhere. Over two and a half years later, we finally find out how she made the transition from her appearance in Ultimates 2 to Ultimates 3 #1. Similarly, Black Panther was "introduced" in Ultimates 3 #1, only to have his origin finally explained a year later. Scarlet Witch was shown to be "alive" in Ultimate X (over 3 years after her death), but it still wasn't explained at all. And then, of course, there's the stuff he never really bothered finishing: Dr. Doom's return to the UU, Pietro's motivation for setting up Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum, Dr. Strange's body, etc.

Scarlet Witch was explained to be in Quicksilver's head in Fallout.

He wasn't given the time to finish, for me the whole point of his run was to set things up for him and other writers.

What does something have to do to qualify as action then? I don't see how hundreds of guys shooting guns at each other while there are planes dropping bombs around them, all while a guy is running ahead hitting people in the face with a shield doesn't count as action.

I don't like war and I find it an evil that we unfortunately have to have, I don't like it glamorized.

Of what, Avengers #1? That's kind of the whole point of the Ultimate Universe; the first Ultimate Spider-man arc was just a rehash of Amazing Fantasy #15. Even still, it's a completely different story here.

I thought Lee did it better in Avengers #1.

How so? A big part of the story is about each member developing relationships with one another and learning to work together. Even when there's a team, there should be individual focus. And if Millar's wasn't a team book, I don't really see how Ultimates 3 was.

Millar's seemed so scattered and less focused on the team as a whole and more on the relationships in the team, Loeb's seemed more focused on the team as a whole.

[Plawsky]

I despise Bay's bastardization creation.

But you love Loeb's

He should've had Wolverine kill him when they fought.

He could have. Hawkeye has bullets that penetrate the skin, heat up to extreme degrees to melt the adamantium, poison the blood stream and explode to destroy every cell in his body. Loeb told me all about it!

[wyokid]

But you love Loeb's

Lol I know, I am the weird one in my family.

[Plawsky]

Scarlet Witch was explained to be in Quicksilver's head in Fallout.

Sort of, but the whole thing still wasn't explained.

He wasn't given the time to finish, for me the whole point of his run was to set things up for him and other writers.

He was given plenty of time. In three and a half years, he only put out about 25 issues. Sure, a lot of the delays were due to artists, but if he really wanted to finish his stories, he could have gotten a faster artist.

Millar's seemed so scattered and less focused on the team as a whole and more on the relationships in the team, Loeb's seemed more focused on the team as a whole.

But what did Loeb do that showed the Ultimates' development as a team? The only thing I can think of was when Cap rallied the guys against Loki in New Ultimates #3.

[wyokid]

He was given plenty of time. In three and a half years, he only put out about 25 issues. Sure, a lot of the delays were due to artists, but if he really wanted to finish his stories, he could have gotten a faster artist.

I'm glad he stuck with those artists. New Ultimates and Ultimate X look beautiful.

But what did Loeb do that showed the Ultimates' development as a team? The only thing I can think of was when Cap rallied the guys against Loki in New Ultimates #3.

Tell you what, for the first time ever I will open Ultimates 1 and Ultimates 2 and for the first time ever I will read them again.

[Balfro]

Yeah it's still unclear as to exactly how much of her is delusion to Pietro. SHe can still either be full on in his imagination, or someone (possibly even her) is making him see her.

I'd like to think that he's gone nutso. He's really shaping up to be a great villain on a different note than his father because if he is going nuts then he isn't just suffering from delusions of grandeur, like Magneto was. He's more deceitful and cunning.

[Johnny Stooge]

The Ultimates was one of the first comic book series I read, back when I started in 2005. To this day, it still ranks as one of my absolute favourite comics of all time. I was 14 at the time and I imagine that's probably part of why it stuck with me so strongly. I loved it so much I double-dipped on trades and the omnibus when it eventually came out (sold off the trades afterwards). It's one of the first books I give to people to read when they ask me for superhero comics.

Now, as far as I'm concerned there is absolutely nothing that comes after Ultimates 2 #13. Ultimates 3 was terrible. It barely even resembled anything from Millar and Hitch's Ultimates. I didn't even bother with Ultimatum or New Ultimates. And the idea, to me, that someone could possibly suggest that Ultimates 3 was better than Ultimates 1 & 2 is just ludicrous. No, it isn't.

I also thought Millar's Ultimate Avengers was quite bad. But nothing like the atrocity Ultimates 3 was.

So when I read Ultimate Comics: Ultimates #1 yesterday, I finally felt like the original book I fell in love with had returned. This is The Ultimates. I can't wait to read more.


(Can someone help me out with what happened to Thor? I know Madureira redesigned him to be more like 616 version, as he did with everyone else, but didn't he get his tech costume and hammer back in Ultimate Avengers and Ultimate Thor? I much prefer that look to what he's sporting now. And hopefully Tony will get a new suit that isn't just a derivative of his 616/movie suit.)