Comparing the Ultimates: Millar, Loeb, Hickman, Humphries

[Drz]

Guns are a lot different than becoming a 600-pounds-of-muscle-force-to-be-reckoned-with. And I would be saying the same thing if they all took the Giant Man serum. If Punisher and Hawkeye aren't using guns (or some kind of weapon), then what makes them different than anyone else?

Punisher is still the unrelenting force of nature, the christian man who lost his family to the mafia and unknowingly the servant of Satan himself presumebly. Hawkeye, while being the Hulk still took down the Spider with his trade mark skill: Hawkeye. Never. Misses.

I read about Fury, Punisher, and Hawkeye to see how they beat the bad guy, not to see how Hulk beats the bad guy.

Yet, the Hulk pills barely helped, so again why so much fussing? Not to mention the Korean revolution army had a handful of Giant Men and so did the Vampires, why no hate?!

No, you can't say that about any weapon. Guns and bombs, for instance, obviously don't put the arms race to an end. But with the Hulk pill, ever American could be Hulked out - and stable - and that kind of kills the whole thing. That's what Ultimates Annual #1 was all about, just exchange the Hulk pill with the SSS.

Yes i can say about that, because then even new weapons would be created to go up againts the Hulk army. It's ridicilous how the Giant Man serum is somehow acceptable in mass production but the Hulk is ruled out. Why?!?!?

And I believe what the villagers were taking was actually his blood, not a standalone serum, but I could be wrong about that.

The serum had his blood, but i don't see your argument? Frank became insane because of Vietnam, it had absolutely nothing to do with the serum, he saw what happened in Vietnam and chose to hate America.

And the point still stands, mass production of the SSS minimizes Steve Rogers character. The point has always been that there is something special about him; he's the only one it works on. Despite being "just some kid from Brooklyn," he's the one who can overcome the serum's flaws and be the World's Greatest Hero. What makes him special if every marine also gets to be a super soldier?

He's still the Man out of Time, he's still the man with all these virtues, he's the hero who saves the world for a day job, i mean, Punisher was the "Captain America" of the Avengers, you had two sides of the same coin, but that doesn't make either character weaker.

Because if Cash had those Hulk Pills all along, then Bruce's Hulk problems were for nothing. While he was busy struggling with the Hulk, Cash had access to a pill that did the same thing as Bruce's serum, but without the angry green side effects. He was struggling to solve a problem that it turns out had already been solved.

That's just more icing of the cake with Mark Millar's cynism on characters and cynical characters. Also Cash not having the same problems as Banner doesn't change a thing, it was still Banner out of his own desperate dumb mind that he chose to hulk out on Manhattan to give Ultimates "purpose" alongside his problems with Betty. The core of the character is not taken away.

[Plawsky]

Yet, the Hulk pills barely helped, so again why so much fussing? Not to mention the Korean revolution army had a handful of Giant Men and so did the Vampires, why no hate?!



Yes i can say about that, because then even new weapons would be created to go up againts the Hulk army. It's ridicilous how the Giant Man serum is somehow acceptable in mass production but the Hulk is ruled out. Why?!?!?

I already addressed all that. It's not the mass production that's the problem, it's the fact that Hawkey and co. used it. When there's Giant Men walking around, they're just random soldiers. It shows that you can mass produce powers, but the main heroes still have something special. Once you start giving the main heroes these mass produced powers, it's saying that their powers aren't enough on their own. Are you saying you'd be fine with it if Humphries decided that everyone on the team was going to take Hulk Pills, Nuke's SSS, and the Giant Man serum? Suddenly, all the Ultimates would just be the same. It'd be stupid and pointless.

Edit: I should also say again, if I haven't made it properly clear: it's not the Hulk pills themselves I have a problem with. It's the way they were used in the story, and the fact that the story itself was already fizzling by that point. If there had been some build up and exploration into the use and history of the Hulk pills, their introduction would have been - pardon the pun - an easier pill to swallow. But the way we got them, I felt like they left a lot to be desired, and are better off as an odd footnote, largely forgotten in the UU's history, right next to Banshee, UFF's Devils arc, and Black Panther.

[theqing]

I don't think Hickman could've done much better. I mean, remember what he did to the Council of Reeds in his opening arc? And to the survivors a little ways after that?

[sage6paths]

I don't think Hickman could've done much better. I mean, remember what he did to the Council of Reeds in his opening arc? And to the survivors a little ways after that?

I don't know about Hickman but I know I did it better. And if I can write the ending better then Hickman should have too. I suggest taking a look at my Scripts for an alternate version of the ending to the Children vs The people arc. I hope you enjoy it. http://forums.comicbookresources.com...-by-Sage6Paths

[chaosincarnate]

I really wish Warren Ellis had taken over the Ultimates after Mark Millar. Warren easily wrote the best stark, and he had a decent voice for hulk, nick fury, and captain america. I always saw an Ellis run as a combination of Millar and Hickman: realistic characterization and out of this world sci-fi.

[Fizicks]

Because if Cash had those Hulk Pills all along, then Bruce's Hulk problems were for nothing. While he was busy struggling with the Hulk, Cash had access to a pill that did the same thing as Bruce's serum, but without the angry green side effects. He was struggling to solve a problem that it turns out had already been solved.

Exactly. This has always been my main problem with Tyrone's character and the hulk pills, but I never knew how to put it quite as lucidly as Plawsky did here.

[Drz]

Edit: I should also say again, if I haven't made it properly clear: it's not the Hulk pills themselves I have a problem with. It's the way they were used in the story, and the fact that the story itself was already fizzling by that point. If there had been some build up and exploration into the use and history of the Hulk pills, their introduction would have been - pardon the pun - an easier pill to swallow. But the way we got them, I felt like they left a lot to be desired, and are better off as an odd footnote, largely forgotten in the UU's history, right next to Banshee, UFF's Devils arc, and Black Panther.

Well you know Millar had 6 issues to go and the Hulk Pill reveal was one of the hooks on #5 from the last page cliffhanger of #4, i thought it was better to reveal more about Tyrone at the very end than reveal he reverts back to being cripple in Avengers 2, because then it would have begged the question how SHIEDL would have never gotten to take them down.

Anyhow, regarding Sam Humphries and Ultimate Thor, was anyone else really bothered by this scene:


Thor has lost his son, but he behaves like a complete dickhead with no responsibility and just blatantly states how bored he is without any concern for others. This is him talking to people he has (according to Humphries) known for close to 9 years.