Comparing the Ultimates: Millar, Loeb, Hickman, Humphries

[wyokid]

But the observation was not without implication. You obviously meant something by pointing out that it failed the test, and this isn't the first time you've brought up the test recently.

Captain America: The First Avenger doesn't pass the test and that's my favorite Marvel film ever. Do I wish it did? Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not a fantastic movie.

[Plawsky]

Captain America: The First Avenger doesn't pass the test and that's my favorite Marvel film ever. Do I wish it did? Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not a fantastic movie.

Then why bring it up during a criticism? You were clearly intending it as such, as you were pointing out that the book doesn't focus on a female cast. But really, the test obviously means nothing.

[wyokid]

Then why bring it up during a criticism? You were clearly intending it as such, as you were pointing out that the book doesn't focus on a female cast. But really, the test obviously means nothing.

It's something that is important to ME.

[Cryptid]

Captain America: The First Avenger doesn't pass the test and that's my favorite Marvel film ever. Do I wish it did? Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not a fantastic movie.

In general, the Bechdel test doesn't say very much about the quality or even the gender politics of individual examples. Sex and the City passes with ease, but no one in their right mind would call it a feminist show. The test measures a trend toward representing women through their relationships with men; it's not intended to measure sexism on a case-by-case basis. It will surprise exactly no one that superhero book do not fare especially well, but then the test only confirms what most of the female costumes convey without the benefit of word bubbles.

[Robbie_Jee]

Yes they were.

Where?
I'm not doubting you it's just that I'd like to know.

[wyokid]

In general, the Bechdel test doesn't say very much about the quality or even the gender politics of individual examples. Sex and the City passes with ease, but no one in their right mind would call it a feminist show. The test measures a trend toward representing women through their relationships with men; it's not intended to measure sexism on a case-by-case basis. It will surprise exactly no one that superhero book do not fare especially well, but then the test only confirms what most of the female costumes convey without the benefit of word bubbles.

I didn't say it did lol. Also I would NEVER use it for films like Sex in the City, but rather films that are mainly targeted towards a general or male audience.

[Robbie_Jee]

Yes they were.

I just checked.
No they weren't.
So my argument still stands.

[Cryptid]

I just checked.
No they weren't.
So my argument still stands.

They don't play a large role, but they join the roster during the second half of the first series, when Fury merges his black-ops agents with the public team.

[Plawsky]

I just checked.
No they weren't.
So my argument still stands.

Again, yes they were.

[Plawsky]

It's something that is important to ME.

But again, why bring it up, only to later say that you meant nothing by it? What importance does passing the test bring to the quality of a story?

The test doesn't account for conversations between a man and woman that has nothing to do with romance. The story could feature a woman who is leading a group of men into battle, but it wouldn't pass. However, it would pass if two women talked about shoe shopping. It only measures arbitrary quantities in an effort to somehow critique the level of feminism in a story. Yet even New Ultimates, which is supposedly all about feminism, barely passes, and some might argue that it doesn't at all.

[Sparrowsabre7]

I just checked.
No they weren't.
So my argument still stands.

Dude, they are. Unless you're taking "Ultimates 1" to mean issue 1 or "The Ultimates: volume 1" (containing issues 1-6) as opposed to the entire Ultimates 1 miniseries, then I can't understand why you think they're not.

[Robbie_Jee]

Again, yes they were.

Ok, thanks.

Dude, they are. Unless you're taking "Ultimates 1" to mean issue 1 or "The Ultimates: volume 1" (containing issues 1-6) as opposed to the entire Ultimates 1 miniseries, then I can't understand why you think they're not.

I just looked through the first trade and I couldn't see them. My mistake.

[Robbie_Jee]

Double post

[taylor51]

Listen all... I really don't know what happened. Amazon was having an epic comics sale and I needed another cheap book to qualify for free super shipping for my Ultimate Doomsday OHC and damn them, they suggested the Ultimatum OHC and I went for it. I told myself it was only because I "needed" it for completion's sake. I sat down to read it a couple of days ago, fully expecting to have my negative memories for it reaffirmed when I found myself enjoying it! Dangit! What did wyokid slip into my drink? >_>

Anyway, I then spent the next few days expanding a critique that I wrote in notepad into a full blown essay. Would anyone be interested in me posting a MONSTROUS reevaluation presenting my feelings on the subject after a second read through some 4 years later?

[Drz]

Go for it.