Comparing the Ultimates: Millar, Loeb, Hickman, Humphries

[wyokid]

But he wasn't on par with his previous writing, neither was Tony Stark even after he achieved a new girlfriendl, he kept thinking about Sam Loeb while having sex, thats completely unlike Millar's Tony. Hawkeye was turned into a broot who just wanted suicide more or less, Blob was turned into a cannablist, Sabretooth's powers we're gimped because "a blind eye looks cool" alongside Carol Danvers turned into a D-cupped bimbo. Valkyrie was converted into a Thor lunatic.

I was talking Ultimates 3, you see me even mention New Ultimates or Ultimatum? Psst...The answer is no. Tony just had his butler killed by his traitorous fiance I already told you that I found it retarded that he had no problem with it and when its thrust back into his life it hurts him, he is human. I still say Sabertooth is Cable so it aligns. Hawkeye had his family murdered in front him, I would be brooding and suicidal too. Blob was an X-Men character that just got cooler in my book.

ALL OF THIS IS AN OPINION.

Carol wasn't a bimbo, she was still a competent agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.. Tony wasn't thinking about Sam during sex, he was thinking about himself. Valkyrie always had a thing for Thor.

ALL OF THIS IS NOT AN OPINION.

That was when I thought we would get an awesome double splash page of Thor doing something to Britain, like tearing his arm off, that would be cool. Instead he gets his ass handed to him.

What made them more human? Thor was a selffish bastard

Humans are incredibly selfish. The fact that money exists proves that.

Tony was depressed douché.

Understandable when your fiance is a traitor and kills a bunch of people. Also are you saying that you've never been depressed?

How did their previous incarnations seem less human? Tony was a cheerful billionaire who had a "mid life crisis" in the form of a brain tumor and reacted to that as becoming a superhero

Since I have totally been there. Before you say it, no I have never had my fiance been a traitor but I have been used by a woman before, I understood his pain.

Thor was a force of nature who cared for the people and wanted to ensure no corporate America or any other corrupt government would act as a puppet master, he was also there to stop the war that ends all wars, which is the super soldier arms race.

Thor should have been storming the White House then, not protesting.

It does come off as trollish when you ignore what people tell you over and over again.

Irony. Sweet, sweet irony.

[wyokid]

The problem I have with Ultimates 3, and the way Loeb wrote it, is that he obviously didn't really understand what he was getting into when he first started writing it. Halfway through it's blatantly obvious he went back to the drawing board and tried to "Re-Ultimatize" the mistakes he made. A few examples:

- Thor all of a sudden has the stone hammer at the beginning. Then halfway through he, out of the blue, has Thor say "Yeah, uh, my father gave me MANY weapons... I just feel like using this one now..."

- Black Panther was on the team with no explanation, then when Loeb realized that he shouldn't have been, all of a sudden it turned out to be Steve Rogers... Which doesn't even make any sense.

- Valkyrie was on the team with no explanation, then near the end he tried to sort of hint at it through a dream sequence.

- Lastly, I can't prove it, obviously, but I'm convinced that he didn't intend on having the villain be Ultron or any of the other androids. Again it seemed halfway through that he realized "Oh, a big thing in the Ultimate Universe is tying older events into current ones... lets see, what can I use? What about this one insignificant scene involving Wanda and Ultron?" And the rest, as they say, is history.


Now maybe I'm wrong and he planned everything like this on purpose, but if that's the case then the writing was even more shaudy because it wasn't even a mistake then...

I think he did plan it all but some of it was him trying to fix mistakes, like the weapons and Panther. Valkyrie and the villain I think was planned the whole time.

[Drz]

I was talking Ultimates 3, you see me even mention New Ultimates or Ultimatum? Psst...The answer is no. Tony just had his butler killed by his traitorous fiance I already told you that I found it retarded that he had no problem with it and when its thrust back into his life it hurts him, he is human.

Tony has gone thru alot in his life, he even remarks himself abit cynical or was it paranoid when he reveals Black Widow he controls her, this guy has gone thru alot in his life, doesn't mean he should mope and mope and mope some more. Ultimates 3 still has the not-Millar Thor.

I still say Sabertooth is Cable so it aligns.

And i say Loeb's Thor wasn't Millar's Thor at all but a Skrull who fooled the Ultimates. Can't prove me wrong right? Just like Robert Kirkman and the Ultimate Marvel editorial telling Cable = Wolverine clearly means it wasn't Wolverine, heh.

Hawkeye had his family murdered in front him, I would be brooding and suicidal too.

We're not talking about you, we're talking about how to properly treat and respect Millar's characters.

Blob was an X-Men character that just got cooler in my book.

Your personal taste doesn't change the fact it was out of character and a retcon.

Carol wasn't a bimbo, she was still a competent agent of S.H.I.E.L.D..

What did she ever do that was succesful under Loeb?

Tony wasn't thinking about Sam during sex, he was thinking about himself.

He refers to Sam Loeb so yes he was.

Valkyrie always had a thing for Thor.

Nope, she had a thing for Captain America and wanted to meet him.

That was when I thought we would get an awesome double splash page of Thor doing something to Britain, like tearing his arm off, that would be cool. Instead he gets his ass handed to him.

Asgardians fight with honor, you further wish more retcons to happy for your own personal enjoyment.

Humans are incredibly selfish. The fact that money exists proves that.

Yes clearly all humans are selffish and only Jeph Loeb's Mutants and Nick Fury (who is a human) can carry hope onward. Clearly this is how grounded and realistic world is, despite masses of people doing volunteer work, donating blood helping out others such as Jer helping the brilliant bright minds of Chicago, yep we're all incredibly selfish.

Understandable when your fiance is a traitor and kills a bunch of people.

Copypaste time, ya: Tony has gone thru alot in his life, he even remarks himself abit cynical or was it paranoid when he reveals Black Widow he controls her, this guy has gone thru alot in his life, doesn't mean he should mope and mope and mope some more.

Thor should have been storming the White House then, not protesting.

So replace a tyrant with another tyrant? That doesn't teach or solve anything.

Irony. Sweet, sweet irony.

Prove me wrong.

Where does it show or say he took four out? I can't find. The fact that Thor was being beaten by men who get their powers from suits is laughable. Ultimate Thor is a joke now.

Getting a good punch on a hero does not make him laughable, what makes him laughable is being an idiot who was used by both Hela and Loki and attacking his friends instead of the real enemy. Oh and being used like 3 times or so.

[wyokid]

Tony has gone thru alot in his life, he even remarks himself abit cynical or was it paranoid when he reveals Black Widow he controls her, this guy has gone thru alot in his life, doesn't mean he should mope and mope and mope some more. Ultimates 3 still has the not-Millar Thor.

He wasn't. The sex tape caused it to be brought up again. What was it you said about things being said multiple times?

And i say Loeb's Thor wasn't Millar's Thor at all but a Skrull who fooled the Ultimates. Can't prove me wrong right? Just like Robert Kirkman and the Ultimate Marvel editorial telling Cable = Wolverine clearly means it wasn't Wolverine, heh.

If that's your opinion, that's fine, I don't agree with it but I can't prove it wrong so i'm not going to try.

We're not talking about you, we're talking about how to properly treat and respect Millar's characters.

I thought they were treated well.

Your personal taste doesn't change the fact it was out of character and a retcon.

Blob was also a teenager, why aren't you complaining about Bendis retconning him first?

What did she ever do that was succesful under Loeb?

She became leader S.H.I.E.L.D. Does that not seem successful?

He refers to Sam Loeb so yes he was.

At the beginning he mentions a Sam, NOT SAM LOEB, he doesn't mention Sam at the end where he is having sex.

Nope, she had a thing for Captain America and wanted to meet him.

So she dresses like Thor? Yeah, that makes sense...wait no it doesn't.

Asgardians fight with honor, you further wish more retcons to happy for your own personal enjoyment.

Loki fights with honor? Huh, that's weird because I could have sworn that deceit was his most powerful weapon.

Yes clearly all humans are selffish and only Jeph Loeb's Mutants and Nick Fury (who is a human) can carry hope onward. Clearly this is how grounded and realistic world is, despite masses of people doing volunteer work, donating blood helping out others such as Jer helping the brilliant bright minds of Chicago, yep we're all incredibly selfish.

I never said all. Never.

Copypaste time, ya: Tony has gone thru alot in his life, he even remarks himself abit cynical or was it paranoid when he reveals Black Widow he controls her, this guy has gone thru alot in his life, doesn't mean he should mope and mope and mope some more.

Doesn't mean he can't still be effected by it.

So replace a tyrant with another tyrant? That doesn't teach or solve anything.

Who said anything about replacing? or the American government being tyrannical for that matter?

Prove me wrong.

I'm not trolling, I'm giving my opinion something YOU have a problem with. I don't get why you constantly feel the need to argue with everything I say. If I really bother you that much just put me on ignore.

Which you completely ignored.

Getting a good punch on a hero does not make him laughable, what makes him laughable is being an idiot who was used by both Hela and Loki and attacking his friends instead of the real enemy. Oh and being used like 3 times or so.

HE WAS BEING GROUPED UP ON! This means at some point ONE of them started beating him long enough to get more people on to him.

[superchick]

But he wasn't on par with his previous writing, neither was Tony Stark even after he achieved a new girlfriendl, he kept thinking about Sam Loeb while having sex, thats completely unlike Millar's Tony. Hawkeye was turned into a broot who just wanted suicide more or less, Blob was turned into a cannablist, Sabretooth's powers we're gimped because "a blind eye looks cool" alongside Carol Danvers turned into a D-cupped bimbo. Valkyrie was converted into a Thor lunatic.



What made them more human? Thor was a selffish bastard, Tony was depressed douché. How did their previous incarnations seem less human? Tony was a cheerful billionaire who had a "mid life crisis" in the form of a brain tumor and reacted to that as becoming a superhero, Thor was a force of nature who cared for the people and wanted to ensure no corporate America or any other corrupt government would act as a puppet master, he was also there to stop the war that ends all wars, which is the super soldier arms race.


It does come off as trollish when you ignore what people tell you over and over again.

It was Thor that became the lunatic. Valkyrie was always a 'number one fan'. He went from getting close to someone who understood him and his theories to a the equivalent of a Bieber fan. What happened to him?

That was when I thought we would get an awesome double splash page of Thor doing something to Britain, like tearing his arm off, that would be cool. Instead he gets his ass handed to him.

Thor's a hippy, anything that violent to someone not hurting others would not be in character.

[Drz]

He wasn't. The sex tape caused it to be brought up again. What was it you said about things being said multiple times?

Are you seriously trying to say Tony Stark would get mopy because of paparazis? Please. The guy has too many many girls and too many photographs to go around.

If that's your opinion, that's fine, I don't agree with it but I can't prove it wrong so i'm not going to try.

So we can agree Loeb's Thor wasn't the true Thor and we finally got rid of him, hooray for Earth.

I thought they were treated well.

Because you enjoy everyone being an emo whiner?

Blob was also a teenager, why aren't you complaining about Bendis retconning him first?

Two wrongs don't make one right.

She became leader S.H.I.E.L.D. Does that not seem successful?

Someone being good at following orders does not make a person a good leader, again what we're the highlights of her career in a positive light?

At the beginning he mentions a Sam, NOT SAM LOEB, he doesn't mention Sam at the end where he is having sex.

From the last page: "There are nights when i think about that boy, Sam."

So she dresses like Thor? Yeah, that makes sense...wait no it doesn't.

Ray Conner was a fan of Spider-Man but still went on as a Kid Daredevil, are you saying that doesn't make sense?

Loki fights with honor? Huh, that's weird because I could have sworn that deceit was his most powerful weapon.

What a poor desperate argument, you know Loki is an outcast and not a pure Asgardian either. You're only fooling yourself with arguments like these.

I never said all. Never.

But whats what you are saying, you love Loeb's Ultimates for being selffish depressed emo jerks, you love Loeb's Mutants for being hated freaks and you pretty much find Millar's Ultimates boring.

Doesn't mean he can't still be effected by it.

Millar's Tony Stark (the Ultimate Tony Stark) gets over things and doesn't stay moping, he has more important things to do then mope and act young Bruce Wayne.

Who said anything about replacing? or the American government being tyrannical for that matter?

So you want Thor to crash the White House and hope what comes out of it? There are better ways to do things and Thor proved it.

Which you completely ignored.

You seem to just ask controversial for the sake of it, not to mention you might aswell say "i love retcons and characters being written the way i only enjoy them! Screw continuity and the intention of the original intentions, Loeb all the way" may Jonathan Hickman, Bendis and Spencer have mercy when they do something that bashes or ignores Loeb's work, since you already claimed Ultimate Thor ruined New Ultimates somehow.

EDIT: And i want to be very clear on this, you have an opinion sure, but it seems you try to word it in a way you don't admit it's bad characterizations and retcons compared to the original content, but you try to word them as improvements and whatnot.

[Robbie_Jee]

Wyokid. Are you actually camparing the errors of Miller against Loeb? Lol. Good luck with that. And yes, it is your opinion. There's no need to type in big angry red letters. We think you're wrong. That's our opinion. Deal with it.

[wyokid]

Wyokid. Are you actually camparing the errors of Miller against Loeb? Lol. Good luck with that. And yes, it is your opinion. There's no need to type in big angry red letters. We think you're wrong. That's our opinion. Deal with it.

1. They are not angry red letters. It's my way to emphasis. I'm extremely chill right now tbh. lol

2. Drz decides to argue me on almost everything when it is an opinion. I'm not attacking people on their opinion. He's cyber bullying.

3. I know you don't agree, I'm not attacking everyone saying they are wrong. I accept people's opinions.

Thor's a hippy, anything that violent to someone not hurting others would not be in character.

That is why I liked Loeb's take more, Thor should be violent and unpredictable.

[Drz]

2. Drz decides to argue me on almost everything when it is an opinion. I'm not attacking people on their opinion. He's cyber bullying.

Don't insult me as a bully. You post on a public forum your opinion, i discuss it. Thats how it is in the internet, it doesn't make someone a bully if they constantly disagree.

3. I know you don't agree, I'm not attacking everyone saying they are wrong. I accept people's opinions.

But do you accept the truth which is Loeb Retconning and ignoring other peoples work and just doing what he wants with 0 care, thus being rather ignorant and rude to the previous writers.

That is why I liked Loeb's take more, Thor should be violent and unpredictable.

But Loeb's Thor wasn't unpredictable, he was completely predictable since both Hela and Loki managed to trick him into doing what they wanted.

[Balfro]

But Loeb's Thor wasn't unpredictable, he was completely predictable since both Hela and Loki managed to trick him into doing what they wanted.

That is true. Loki entered EarthRealm and staged a take-over all in hopes that Thor would return and go psycho... Which he did. It wasn't a fluke accident, he orchestrated everything to a tee. The only part he didn't account for was Valkyrie becoming, well, a Valkyrie and killing him.

[Robbie_Jee]

It's alright Drz. We all (except for Wyokid) know you're being fair. Don't let him get to you, mate.

[wyokid]

That is true. Loki entered EarthRealm and staged a take-over all in hopes that Thor would return and go psycho... Which he did. It wasn't a fluke accident, he orchestrated everything to a tee. The only part he didn't account for was Valkyrie becoming, well, a Valkyrie and killing him.

I feel like he did. I could just be over-speculating but if Thor's son is evil I think he knew Hela would get pregnant and planned on creating a mini Loki out of the child

[Robbie_Jee]

I forget, why did Thor attack the Ultimates? Seems silly to me, but I could be wrong. Can anyone explain this?

[wyokid]

I forget, why did Thor attack the Ultimates? Seems silly to me, but I could be wrong. Can anyone explain this?

They weren't following his commands and they were in the way of him killing Loki.

[Drz]

I forget, why did Thor attack the Ultimates? Seems silly to me, but I could be wrong. Can anyone explain this?

Basically Valkyrie was dead when Thor just returned and he gets so angry he decides to just attack Captain America and goes on his way to destroy everything on his path. Amora fools Zarda into thinking Thor is Amora so she attacks him and then Thor attempts to murder her before Tony interferes. Basically Thor is just raging and raging until Tony talks him finally to relax, thats when Valkyrie comes back and kills Loki, and then she goes "because you loved me, show some love and a 2nd chance to earth" and Thor talks how he still has alot to learn. <_>

What makes this rather unconvincing is, we clearly see Thor enjoying the sex with Hela, if he truly loved him, shouldn't he feel pain while Hela is humping him?