Page 1 of 58 123451151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 862
  1. #1
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    7,376

    Default Comparing the Ultimates: Millar, Loeb, Hickman, Humphries

    In order to keep this debate from filling up every thread about Hickman's new Ultimate series, I'm giving this its own thread. This is a place to discuss the differences - positive or negative - between the three different writers' runs on Ultimates. What did you like? What didn't you like? What did one writer do better than another?
    I like Ultimate Comics. - Read them with us!

    I also buy: Captain America, Avengers, FF, New Avengers, X-Factor, among others

  2. #2
    Elder Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    23,940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by taylor51 View Post
    Loeb's fight scenes were the definition of style over substance.
    That's exactly what Ultimates should be.

  3. #3
    New Member Atlas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    That's exactly what Ultimates should be.
    Maybe that's what" Avengers" should be, but I don't think that describes the Ultimates style (based on their debut story.)

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    That's exactly what Ultimates should be.
    HELL no lol.

    The Ultimates really has no reason to exist if it's not telling critically acclaimed blockbuster epics. I recognize that you enjoyed Loeb's tenure on the title, but popcorn brawls can't sustain an alternate continuity.
    Marriage Era Spidey bashers are shameful opportunists (Like you REALLY didn't enjoy a single Spidey comic in 20 years)
    Conversely, BND haters REALLY need to get over their continuity elitism already

  5. #5
    Elder Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    23,940

    Default

    Which is why Ultimates 3 was treated so poorly, it's different. It's why Miles is being treated the way he is, it's different. Most people need new things shoved down their throats or else it just reverts back to normal (see 616). This is why I read Ultimate Marvel, it's different.

    We have two other titles for that. Part of why Loeb's work and Avengers was so fun is because it was epic, each issue was jammed pack, and left me wanting more but satisfied with each issue.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Which is why Ultimates 3 was treated so poorly, it's different.
    Ultimates 3 could have been different from Millar's uber political-ness (which, mind you, was UBER different from what 616 Avengers was doing in its time) without the 616 continuity confusion, poorly developed characters and shallow/thematically-out-of-place-in-the-UU plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    It's why Miles is being treated the way he is, it's different. Most people need new things shoved down their throats or else it just reverts back to normal (see 616). This is why I read Ultimate Marvel, it's different.
    People bashing Miles are being snobby comic elitists ;). Don't worry, I'm working on an awesome thread for why Miles is good for USM's long term health/relevance.

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    We have two other titles for that. Part of why Loeb's work and Avengers was so fun is because it was epic, each issue was jammed pack, and left me wanting more but satisfied with each issue.
    I respectfully but STRONGLY disagree. Not to mention that, if you're the two other titles you're talking about are Bendis' Avengers and New Avengers, they're not exactly providing on that front...
    Last edited by taylor51; 08-24-2011 at 05:15 PM.
    Marriage Era Spidey bashers are shameful opportunists (Like you REALLY didn't enjoy a single Spidey comic in 20 years)
    Conversely, BND haters REALLY need to get over their continuity elitism already

  7. #7
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    7,376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Which is why Ultimates 3 was treated so poorly, it's different.
    It had nothing to do with how different it was; it's because it wasn't very good. Sure, many fans are resistant to change, but that wasn't the case with Ultimates 3. They just didn't like that particular change.

    Part of why Loeb's work and Avengers was so fun is because it was epic, each issue was jammed pack, and left me wanting more but satisfied with each issue.
    How was this not jam packed? There's four different main independent plots being set up, as well as some other stuff on the side. Iron Man fought remotely alongside other armored units against war ships, the EUSS took on the Asgardians, Thor was punched fifty miles, and a nuclear bomb blew up; this issue did not lack action.

    The first issue of Ultimates 3, on the other hand, was 11 pages of fighting with "Venom," Hank taking drugs, and Wanda being shot. And while those buildups were decent, we know now where those plots lead, and that they never really had any full payoff.

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Ultimates should be the action comic like it was in Ultimates 3, Ultimatum, and New Ultimates.
    Why should it be like the 15 issues that were almost entirely poorly received (at best)? It makes more sense that 27 issues that are universally acclaimed, changed the direction of Marvel for the past decade and, more importantly, set the stage for what "Ultimates should be" are what Ultimates should be.

    This comic isn't worth $4, I could see about $2 but $4 is just asking for too much with little payoff.
    How much payoff do you expect in the first issue? Ultimates 3 #1 had no payoff; it ended with Wanda dead in Pietro's arms - 100% setup and cliffhanger.
    I like Ultimate Comics. - Read them with us!

    I also buy: Captain America, Avengers, FF, New Avengers, X-Factor, among others

  8. #8
    Elder Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    23,940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by q.u.e.e.n. View Post
    The preview of Ultimate X-Men was more entertaining.

    It was decent. I was bored about 10 pages in, though. I'm not against political stories in my comics - but I hope this doesn't last past the first story arc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xothermic View Post
    It's a decent enough first issue but the Ultimate X-Men preview looks much more interesting.
    ^^^This is exactly how I felt^^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    It had nothing to do with how different it was; it's because it wasn't very good. Sure, many fans are resistant to change, but that wasn't the case with Ultimates 3. They just didn't like that particular change.
    IMO it was more enjoyable then Millar's work. Note I said enjoyable NOT better. Millar's was much better in writing, but I didn't care for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    How was this not jam packed? There's four different main independent plots being set up, as well as some other stuff on the side. Iron Man fought remotely alongside other armored units against war ships, the EUSS took on the Asgardians, Thor was punched fifty miles, and a nuclear bomb blew up; this issue did not lack action.
    It felt like nothing happened. With Ultimates 3 #1 I felt satisfied and still was wanting more. This is the first time I ever regret buying a comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    The first issue of Ultimates 3, on the other hand, was 11 pages of fighting with "Venom," Hank taking drugs, and Wanda being shot. And while those buildups were decent, we know now where those plots lead, and that they never really had any full payoff.
    That was payoff for me. It kept me satisfied, wanting to know what happened next, and felt worth the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    Why should it be like the 15 issues that were almost entirely poorly received (at best)? It makes more sense that 27 issues that are universally acclaimed, changed the direction of Marvel for the past decade and, more importantly, set the stage for what "Ultimates should be" are what Ultimates should be.
    It doesn't have to be poorly written. Hickman could have easily written a story that flowed like Loeb's but were better written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    How much payoff do you expect in the first issue? Ultimates 3 #1 had no payoff; it ended with Wanda dead in Pietro's arms - 100% setup and cliffhanger.
    I prefer endings that are cliffhangers, the kind that make me want to know what happens next, this felt like it was just throwing information at us, this felt like it would read better in trade. This was not worth my money.

  9. #9
    Senior Member superchick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    birkenhead. UK
    Posts
    2,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    There is more to writing than Dialogue and continuity.
    Sure but that is 75% of it. Loeb's biggest failures were character and story as well as dialogue and continuity. In the end, what's the point if the characters don't act like themselves or feel like what they are doing is a natural extension of what is gone before. All the fights in the world won't make up for that.

  10. #10
    Elder Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    23,940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superchick View Post
    Sure but that is 75% of it. Loeb's biggest failures were character and story as well as dialogue and continuity. In the end, what's the point if the characters don't act like themselves or feel like what they are doing is a natural extension of what is gone before. All the fights in the world won't make up for that.
    None of the characters felt different IMO, the continuity errors were UXM (my least favorite book), for me it felt naturally extending Millar's books, and the dialogue was enjoyable ("Suck it!" is hilarious!)

  11. #11
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Home!
    Posts
    9,348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    None of the characters felt different IMO, the continuity errors were UXM
    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...379658&page=70
    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...379658&page=71
    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...379658&page=72

    Nice to see you ignore yesterday's conversation. It's one thing to remain repetive, but when you constantly keep ignoring what people tell you and you not backing it up, you just target yourself as a troll.
    "Finally got rid of all those pesky white males that were burdening the team! Now the Ultimates are urban hipsters... what everyone demanded!" - Exciter
    My Blog

  12. #12
    Elder Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    23,940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...379658&page=70
    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...379658&page=71
    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...379658&page=72

    Nice to see you ignore yesterday's conversation. It's one thing to remain repetive, but when you constantly keep ignoring what people tell you and you not backing it up, you just target yourself as a troll.
    Okay, Thor got better. Millar wrote everyone on a pedestal, Loeb grounded them and made them more human. I'm not trolling, I'm giving my opinion something YOU have a problem with. I don't get why you constantly feel the need to argue with everything I say. If I really bother you that much just put me on ignore.

  13. #13
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Home!
    Posts
    9,348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Okay, Thor got better.
    But he wasn't on par with his previous writing, neither was Tony Stark even after he achieved a new girlfriendl, he kept thinking about Sam Loeb while having sex, thats completely unlike Millar's Tony. Hawkeye was turned into a broot who just wanted suicide more or less, Blob was turned into a cannablist, Sabretooth's powers we're gimped because "a blind eye looks cool" alongside Carol Danvers turned into a D-cupped bimbo. Valkyrie was converted into a Thor lunatic.
    Loeb grounded them and made them more human.


    What made them more human? Thor was a selffish bastard, Tony was depressed douché. How did their previous incarnations seem less human? Tony was a cheerful billionaire who had a "mid life crisis" in the form of a brain tumor and reacted to that as becoming a superhero, Thor was a force of nature who cared for the people and wanted to ensure no corporate America or any other corrupt government would act as a puppet master, he was also there to stop the war that ends all wars, which is the super soldier arms race.
    I'm not trolling, I'm giving my opinion something
    It does come off as trollish when you ignore what people tell you over and over again.
    "Finally got rid of all those pesky white males that were burdening the team! Now the Ultimates are urban hipsters... what everyone demanded!" - Exciter
    My Blog

  14. #14
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    5,854

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    There is more to writing than Dialogue and continuity.
    Never said there wasn't. But to me, those are extremely big problems that Loeb has as a writer and in my opinion he's been very disrespectful to the UU's continuity. Sorry if I touched a nerve

    Quote Originally Posted by Drz View Post
    Thankyou. Much appreciated. Lol.

  15. #15
    Mr. Papaya Balfro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    7,514

    Default

    The problem I have with Ultimates 3, and the way Loeb wrote it, is that he obviously didn't really understand what he was getting into when he first started writing it. Halfway through it's blatantly obvious he went back to the drawing board and tried to "Re-Ultimatize" the mistakes he made. A few examples:

    - Thor all of a sudden has the stone hammer at the beginning. Then halfway through he, out of the blue, has Thor say "Yeah, uh, my father gave me MANY weapons... I just feel like using this one now..."

    - Black Panther was on the team with no explanation, then when Loeb realized that he shouldn't have been, all of a sudden it turned out to be Steve Rogers... Which doesn't even make any sense.

    - Valkyrie was on the team with no explanation, then near the end he tried to sort of hint at it through a dream sequence.

    - Lastly, I can't prove it, obviously, but I'm convinced that he didn't intend on having the villain be Ultron or any of the other androids. Again it seemed halfway through that he realized "Oh, a big thing in the Ultimate Universe is tying older events into current ones... lets see, what can I use? What about this one insignificant scene involving Wanda and Ultron?" And the rest, as they say, is history.


    Now maybe I'm wrong and he planned everything like this on purpose, but if that's the case then the writing was even more shaudy because it wasn't even a mistake then...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •