BPRD... Er, what time is it?

[Jr. Wormwood]

I've always taken the stories to be happening present day. I'm not overly concerned with the where/when, although it IS an interesting mental exercise. I'd imagine this stuff is all hard enough to juggle as it is from a creative standpoint. I imagine time to be much like what Hellboy himself has been for the past few years - completely malleable and between worlds.

[Artie Ness]

But I had no intention of elaborating on why the timeline in the Companion is not completely canon, mainly because there are so many threads that bring that up.

Really! Wow. I'm new here. It seems like I have to catch up with a lot indeed.

But since you ask, I'll answer, praying that this doesn't unleash a hellstorm of arguing.

And a very interesting answer it was! Thanks!

[Middenway]

OK, just finished reading Killing Ground... I've made a lot of mistakes. I'll fix it all up soon, but not yet. I think I'll make the incident in Nebraska the beginning of this timeline, since it is clearly March 2006 when it happened.

Update:
Fixed all the mistakes. There were many. Still have to re-read New World, Gods and Monsters.

Incidentally, when does the Hellboy Companion say Darkness Calls is set? Because I just checked, and the beginning of that story could've been as late as October 2007 (that still allows for the letter in the epilogue to arrive at the BPRD by September 23 if Hellboy sent it when he first arrived at Harry's) and there'd be no continuity problems.

[Kees_L]

Incidentally, when does the Hellboy Companion say Darkness Calls is set? Because I just checked, and the beginning of that story could've been as late as October 2007 (that still allows for the letter in the epilogue to arrive at the BPRD by September 23 if Hellboy sent it when he first arrived at Harry's) and there'd be no continuity problems.

2007
Feb
Outside Castle Giurescu, Romania
A witch finds Hellboy's broken horns.

March
Lucca, Italy
Having acquired Giurescu's skeleton, Igor Bromhead uses it to imprison Hecate...

June
Suffolk, England
Hellboy's boat washes up in the seaside town of Southwold, near the house of Harry Middleton.

October
Counterthorpe, Leicester, England
Witches use a carving of Hellboy...

December
Lucca, Italy
Having swallowed the moon, Bromhead begs Hellboy to kill him...

England
Dagda is killed... (last entry in the Companion, at which time Elizabeth Sherman would be aged 45 years and 8 months).

[Angilas-Man]

er, what time is it?

.... Adventure time!

[Middenway]

June
Suffolk, England
Hellboy's boat washes up in the seaside town of Southwold, near the house of Harry Middleton.

October
Counterthorpe, Leicester, England
Witches use a carving of Hellboy...

Thanks Kees. So I guess the first epilogue would be set around July-September... in which case there is no continuity problem at all. Whoever wrote into Scott Allie made a mistake then. The Hellboy Companion timeline is accurate. 9_9

Hats off to John Arcudi, Scott Allie and Mike Mignola for being so amazingly on top of things. I have encountered not a single contradiction!

[Middenway]

I have encountered not a single contradiction!

Damn. New World and Gods messed that up! Guess the Hellboy Companion isn't accurate anymore... This is confusing...

New World is clearly stated in a news broadcast to be set a year after the Nebraska incident (so it's set 2007). However, this contradicts a statement from Killing Ground.

In Killing Ground it is said they've known Daimio for 3 years. Since they met him in 2004, that places the story in September 2007. However, the events of Plague of Frogs are set six weeks after a bi-yearly investigation of Cavendish Hall (so the investigation is every May and November). So it's likely the events of Plague of Frogs happened December 2003 or very early January 2004. The events of The Dead happen shortly afterwards, so probably January or February. Which would mean by September 2007, they would've known Daimio for 3 years and 8-9 months. Since this was said conversationally, and not matter-of-fact like the news report in New World, it's far more likely that "3 years" meant "nearly three years", placing the story in 2006.

[Jason Abbadon]

.... Adventure time!

Peanut Butter-Lovecraftian Horror Time!
(image of Hellboy and the BPRD gang dancing deleted at request of CBR)

[Artie Ness]

clearly stated in a news broadcast

...in which country and universe are news broadcast really accurate these days?

[Jason Abbadon]

This just in: "GOP blames Obama for giant penis monsters- Rick Perry calling for day of prayer..."

I wonder how the 2008 elections would go in such a world?

hopefully the Russia series will explain how the other big nuclear superpower views the sudden appearance of Lovecraftian horrors across the United States... or is this happening worldwide?
We know that at some point they'll have to show the destruction of Hellboy's fight with the Dragon and the destruction that caused, but I dont think we've seen wide scale destruction aside from the US and Germany -and Germany was not the Ogdru Hem- just ancient war machines set on "Destroy!".
(not that the distinction would be ovbvious to the lay person watching on TV.)

For once, Japan is giant monster free!

[cantide]

This just in: "GOP blames Obama for giant penis monsters- Rick Perry calling for day of prayer..."

I wonder how the 2008 elections would go in such a world?

hopefully the Russia series will explain how the other big nuclear superpower views the sudden appearance of Lovecraftian horrors across the United States... or is this happening worldwide?
We know that at some point they'll have to show the destruction of Hellboy's fight with the Dragon and the destruction that caused, but I dont think we've seen wide scale destruction aside from the US and Germany -and Germany was not the Ogdru Hem- just ancient war machines set on "Destroy!".
(not that the distinction would be ovbvious to the lay person watching on TV.)

For once, Japan is giant monster free!

I'm pretty sure there was a significant amount of damage somewhere in the Pacific after Liz's blowout that 'killed the last of the frogs.' And Zinco's assistant/successor visited the ruins to record a commercial for his own gain...

[Angilas-Man]

For once, Japan is giant monster free!

Someone write to Hellmail. This needs to be rectified.

[Kees_L]

Damn. New World and Gods messed that up! Guess the Hellboy Companion isn't accurate anymore... This is confusing...

New World is clearly stated in a news broadcast to be set a year after the Nebraska incident (so it's set 2007). However, this contradicts a statement from Killing Ground.

In Killing Ground it is said they've known Daimio for 3 years. Since they met him in 2004, that places the story in September 2007. However, the events of Plague of Frogs are set six weeks after a bi-yearly investigation of Cavendish Hall (so the investigation is every May and November). So it's likely the events of Plague of Frogs happened December 2003 or very early January 2004. The events of The Dead happen shortly afterwards, so probably January or February. Which would mean by September 2007, they would've known Daimio for 3 years and 8-9 months. Since this was said conversationally, and not matter-of-fact like the news report in New World, it's far more likely that "3 years" meant "nearly three years", placing the story in 2006.

Aaaand this would be where you'd be losing me.

When is it allright or not allright any longer to be calling something "3 years time" amid conversation? Would such conversation be for stating something to being a while or would it be for calculating what time it is, or at what time anyone could appropriately get considered "up in the morning"?

Wouldn't you say that in the Storm & the Fury Hellboy is made to notice some particular news coverage, potentially as being a first time for him? Would it have to be realtime live footage per se? Because to my estimation it wouldn't have to be realtime live footage, to my estimation it would just be Hellboy and Alice seeing the footage for a first time.

I'm not gonna be quoting more bits from the Companion if you'd persist in arguing with the Companion without buying a copy for yourself - which might well be something for you, since it would have been made to indulge the taking pleasure in puzzling stuff out time-wise, same as you'd be doing in this thread.

I find you shouldn't paint out Mignola-verse stuff or either the Companion as being faulty or lousy, since it would be made for offering beautiful stuff instead of just stuff being "correct", wouldn't you agree?

Puzzling will be lovely I bet, but you have to consider how it would be matter of story in the first place, where calculating everything just might NOT have to be possible all the time. Not for you in your critiques nor for anybody else.
Because in a conversation "3 years" could be meaning roughly anything between "more than 2" or "less than 4 years".

Would be my take.

[Middenway]

Because in a conversation "3 years" could be meaning roughly anything between "more than 2" or "less than 4 years".

I agree, which places Killing Ground firmly in 2006.

As for the Companion, I just can't seem to justify buying an incomplete book, one that will likely be heavily revised one day. Believe me, I am tempted, but in the end I decided I would only get my facts from the books, the only real canon.

I find you shouldn't paint out Mignola-verse stuff or either the Companion as being faulty or lousy, since it would be made for offering beautiful stuff instead of just stuff being "correct", wouldn't you agree?

As of yet I still haven't found a single piece of credible contradictory information in the books*. However, if I try to fit things in with the Companion (which places Killing Ground in 2007) the books contradict themselves so frequently, it makes creating a logical timeline impossible. Everything I need is in the books, I just need to find it. Ignoring the Companion, the books are not only beautiful stuff, but they are also "correct". It fits so neatly, it's hard to imagine it all being coincidence. John Arcudi must keep track of everything very carefully.

The list I have created is simply the evidence I've found in each story, nothing more. This was not created to be a puzzle (although I am enjoying the puzzle aspect, especially when everything fits together so neatly), but rather to get into the characters' heads. It makes such a huge difference knowing the Nebraska incident was last year and not five years ago. The timeline has an effect on the characters. At the end of the day, the characters are what I'm most interested in.

Speaking of characters, in King of Fear (set approx. January 2007) Panya is told she could be walking in a year's time. I can't wait to see that!

Wouldn't you say that in the Storm & the Fury Hellboy is made to notice some particular news coverage, potentially as being a first time for him? Would it have to be realtime live footage per se? Because to my estimation it wouldn't have to be realtime live footage, to my estimation it would just be Hellboy and Alice seeing the footage for a first time.

That's interesting. I haven't re-read any of the Hellboy stories yet, I just sort of plonked them in roughly for now (You'll note I didn't even bother to attempt The Wild Hunt). I actually thought Hellboy was looking at the TV and responding to the fact that he was seeing Kate again, exhausted and dealing with horrors worse than ever before. I didn't get the feeling this was the first time he was seeing the Salton Sea creature. However, that's purely from memory. I will go back and reread it at some point, but I'm in no hurry with this timeline thing. It's a casually paced work in progress. I'll be paying particular attention when I read that section though.

Not to mention, placing the Duncan Fegredo stories in time is difficult since Hellboy and Alice are sort of adrift in a supernatural realm.

*The exception being Abe's remark about the Cavendish Hall incident being 15 years ago. However, I think this still makes sense, since when events are further back than a decade, we tend to rounds things by fives. An incident 18 years ago is said conversationally as "20 years ago". This is literally the only contradiction I've found, and it can be rationalised away very easily.

[Jason Abbadon]

are what I'm most interested in.

Speaking of characters, in King of Fear (set aprrox. January 2007) Panya is told she could be walking in a year's time. I can't wait to see that!

I would not be suprised if the old Slim Jim Golem can walk already and she's just in the chair to make people underestimate her.
It seemed that the burning opiates were really required to restrain her from mischief- after all, it's not like she could have swam to the mainland, so she must have been a real handfull.