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  1. #196
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angilas-Man View Post
    Wasn't it the future that would have happened had Liz not (for lack of a better term) nuked the frogs and caused this worldwide calamity? Hellboy's death (which was really part of a victory) may be another deviation from the worst possible outcome of Liz's vision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    No, the future from the vision is because she killed Saa instead of doing what he wanted.
    Actually, you're both right. Remember with time-travel or visions, cause and effect can appear to be reversed (even though in actuality, they aren't).

    If the vision is a vision of "A Future" rather than "The Future", then it means Liz is seeing a future in which she never saw a vision of the future in that future's past. If Liz never had her vision, then she would not have "nuked the frogs and caused this worldwide calamity", so assuming it really is "A future" then you are both right.

    Since Liz's vision is what caused her to fill the hollows of the earth with flames, then any vision she has of the future that does not take into account that it has already been witnessed in its past by her is a vision of the future in which the hollow of the earth was not flamed by Liz.

    Cause and effect must be preserved, even if they are witnessed in the reverse order (or in this case not witnessed, since that future's history was changed).

    But, of course, this is only if it is "A future" and not "The future" that Liz saw.

  2. #197
    Hell yeah! Kees_L's Avatar
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    I get the feeling that both Gary B's as Angilas-Man's points are being missed or mis-interpreted,
    if Angilas-Man would mean to be pointing out how Liz's vision might have meant to being like a "worst-case-scenario-outcome", one which, thanks to Liz's response for it never came to being a future but instead the 'future' or course of events got bent into a fully new one?

    And Gary's point seems to be how any vision into the future wouldn't have to be one, not even if it would be one! Because any future only reveals itself as being the only possible future once it actually will have come to pass.

    Rendering this whole debate pretty much moot, because even if a vision would be one into the actual future - being as multi-interpretable as this one, then we still would not be able to be reading it as such correctly, because we'd lack the proper context due to things not having run its course into such a future as becoming the designated outcome yet.

    A premonition or either any granted glimpse beyond time does not automatically lead to higher knowledge, not even much of an inclination to how exactly things would turn out to develop pretty much.

    Like Donald's post seems to propose: the only thing the vision would have done at that particular instance would be to have Liz act in the way she did at that particular moment.
    Of course it might be implicating things, but I highly doubt it would let itself be read easily at this point, plus it won't have to be straightforward or singular at all. Which would be what would be so cool about it, it's nice to have things read not easily or in a much diffused way brimming with potential both as delusion - simply because that's way more fun than just some dumb future vision saying how it's gonna be.

    I would not like knowing that Hellboy would be to meet up with the BPRD as if back from the dead for a certainty - but then there would be no need for such and still it could be to happen, maybe, one way or another.
    IF that would be the point to it at all, showing a future as having to come to pass.
    Like a doped up metaphore on booze figuratively made to rhyme, or not: it could be Ónything.
    By which I'd mean how maybe this vision will read better once it itself plus any of its implications would be all hindsight. I would think such likely actually.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 02-01-2012 at 06:13 PM.
    Been called a 'good egg'. Been told to rock, been told to steady myself. Been told to (please) be goin' places.
    Chillingly good stuff besides Mignola, Slint, M, Knut and really big chunks of tinfoil?
    Half sunk in the mud, with one eye showing / a cracked smile and hair still growing /
    your hands miles apart, as if they'd never met / you were the happiest I'd seen you yet
    . ~
    (full) lyrics to 'Exhume' by Bedhead.

  3. #198
    BLOOD OF THE MACHINE Mechano's Avatar
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    Spoilers************














    Man, this series ended with a bang! I had been a little bored with the first few issues, but dang!

    Abe alive and transforming!

    Snowflake in a jar? (has Iosef been taking lessons from Damio?

    The Thule Society!!!

  4. #199
    Hey don't call. Gary_B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechano View Post
    Spoilers************














    Man, this series ended with a bang! I had been a little bored with the first few issues, but dang!

    Abe alive and transforming!

    Snowflake in a jar? (has Iosef been taking lessons from Damio?

    The Thule Society!!!
    I just googled Thule Society and was blown away by what I read. Those people believed in so much of the cool stuff that I love in the Hellboy Universe! Hyperborea, hollow earth and vril energy are all things they believed in. Unfortunately they believed that the Aryan race descended from the Hyperboreans and required members to swear that their blood was pure and free from Jewish or coloured influences. I have heard references to occult origins of the Nazi party but I hadn't read any of this information before. Quite interesting.

  5. #200
    Hell yeah! Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_B View Post
    I just googled Thule Society and was blown away by what I read. Those people believed in so much of the cool stuff that I love in the Hellboy Universe! Hyperborea, hollow earth and vril energy are all things they believed in. Unfortunately they believed that the Aryan race descended from the Hyperboreans and required members to swear that their blood was pure and free from Jewish or coloured influences. I have heard references to occult origins of the Nazi party but I hadn't read any of this information before. Quite interesting.
    I think what I personally like about *purity* or *race* or *believing* coupled to groups or clubs or societies (secret or not) is how any such seems so fiercely an analogy of itself.

    Because regardless of whatever the motives or intentions, things like purity or convictions or rightnesses cannot weigh in or be judged solely on their own account.
    I dunno if I word it right, but...

    It seems like purity couldn't be a thing if it could just get achieved or made into being such.
    Or, if there wouldn't be any women, then any men's clubs as such couldn't be to mean anything.
    If beliefs or opinions couldn't be to vary or get abandoned or potentially be proving false, then any beliefs couldn't be to mean anything much.

    And I like that.
    That impurity both as purity couldn't really be separated. Or that without wrongs any rights wouldn't be meaning as much, making any wrongs and rights to be connecting.

    Well, something like that.

    I vividly remember my first ever dress-up party where I needed to choose between either cowboy or Indian.
    Taking me days and then weeks (as my invitation had reached me timely).
    But loyalty to either would come so easily I'd want it to remain most truthful and full. Cowboy or Indian.
    I remember the party to being great (for a girl's birthday whom I was in Kindergarten with). She had red hair.
    And I got cake, on my sleeve.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 02-06-2012 at 02:28 PM.
    Been called a 'good egg'. Been told to rock, been told to steady myself. Been told to (please) be goin' places.
    Chillingly good stuff besides Mignola, Slint, M, Knut and really big chunks of tinfoil?
    Half sunk in the mud, with one eye showing / a cracked smile and hair still growing /
    your hands miles apart, as if they'd never met / you were the happiest I'd seen you yet
    . ~
    (full) lyrics to 'Exhume' by Bedhead.

  6. #201
    simon pimpernel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_B View Post
    I just googled Thule Society and was blown away by what I read. Those people believed in so much of the cool stuff that I love in the Hellboy Universe! Hyperborea, hollow earth and vril energy are all things they believed in. Unfortunately they believed that the Aryan race descended from the Hyperboreans and required members to swear that their blood was pure and free from Jewish or coloured influences. I have heard references to occult origins of the Nazi party but I hadn't read any of this information before. Quite interesting.
    Nazis... the pulp fiction gift that keeps on giving.

    I also recommend checking out Ferdinand Ossendowski's Beasts, Men and Gods... an account of the author's travels throughout Russia and Asia during the Russian Civil War... in which he repeatedly comes across tantalising accounts of a "secret king of fear" who sits at the centre of the earth controlling civilisation.

  7. #202
    M.S.Corley noble_enough's Avatar
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    Trade cover

    Ars longa, vita brevis
    www.mscorley.blogspot.com

  8. #203
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    No Kate Corrigan... But it's hard to be disappointed when the cover looks this good. It's really awesome.

    Kate has to make it onto a trade cover one day though...

  9. #204
    crabkiller TheBranMan788's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middenway View Post
    No Kate Corrigan... But it's hard to be disappointed when the cover looks this good. It's really awesome.

    Kate has to make it onto a trade cover one day though...
    I agree, I was expecting Kate on the cover. although it's a great cover, I would of liked Kate on there.
    I'm very sorry to be so late, Katherine.
    The weather is terrible.

  10. #205
    Special Agent Skinkie's Avatar
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    I wonder when its coming out? Seeing the cover makes me want to get my hands on it even more.

  11. #206
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    My guess is August.

  12. #207
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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    Details on the trade can be found here and, yes, it does contain the short story An Unmarked Grave. Comes out August 15.
    Last edited by Middenway; 03-13-2012 at 05:22 PM.

  13. #208
    Special Agent Skinkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middenway View Post
    Details on the trade can be found here and, yes, it does contain the short story An Unmarked Grave. Comes out August 15.
    Excellent. I can't wait to read this arc.

  14. #209
    Not nice. Jason Abbadon's Avatar
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    There's a whole series waiting to be written on how they captured Snowflake like that!

    hmm...maybe an upcoming Professor Broom adventure?

    Havng just completed this series, the DHP Helboy memorial issue thing (Kate and Alice -and issue one of The Long Death), it seems poor Kate's authority is slipping away.
    - and that Roger is rapidly outgrowing his association with the BPRD!

    I blame Panya for everything! NEVER TRUST A MUMMY!
    Tension, Apprehension, and Dissension have begun.

  15. #210
    Hell Notes Historian Middenway's Avatar
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