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  1. #436

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    I'm back to not having a clue what just happened. That issue had so much going on that I'm just going to box it and wait to read it in context of the whole work.
    PULL: Chew, Walking Dead, Saga, Batman, Lil' Gotham, Bedlam, Hellboy in Hell, Jupiter's Legacy, East of West, The Wake, Sex, Trillium, Miracleman, Sandman Overture, Rocket Girl, Sex Criminals

  2. #437
    Senior Member Arvandor's Avatar
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    If this doesn't start making sense soon. I'm dropping it.
    virtue untested is innocence.
    When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember it is still an evil.

  3. #438

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    I do feel like with the confusion going on lately if I was pressed to drop a book off my pull it would be this one. It is by far the most frustrating book in my list. The issue with stuff like this is that the payoff better be AMAZING or it feels like you got snookered. I didn't watch Lost, but I keep feeling like comparisons to that property are quite valid. And look how that still haunts Lindeloff to this day - he still feels the need to poke fun at himself over how that all wrapped up and the reaction it elicited.
    Last edited by ugdave; 12-03-2012 at 05:47 AM.
    PULL: Chew, Walking Dead, Saga, Batman, Lil' Gotham, Bedlam, Hellboy in Hell, Jupiter's Legacy, East of West, The Wake, Sex, Trillium, Miracleman, Sandman Overture, Rocket Girl, Sex Criminals

  4. #439

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    Hmm. Really seems like a lot of people are getting confused. Maybe it reads better as a trade. I guess I'll see when Vol. 2 comes out. I would guess that some things are answered in the end of Season One and beginning of Season Two. Obviously not all, since it will be a 100 issue series, but probably clear things up and set a path to drive towards at the end of the series.

  5. #440
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    I just finished the first trade and was blown away!

    I have totally drifted away from Marvel and DC is not far behind and have replaced my usual mainstream superhero fare with some amazing stuff from other companies, especially Image. For as much as I think Image is putting out some awesome stuff Morning Glories just jumped to the top of my "must read" list.
    "The most merciful thing in the world . . . is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents."
    H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #441

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    I don't get the feeling (that I did from the little bit of "Lost" that I watched) that "He's just making this up as he goes along." On the contrary, you can see definite patterns emerging, and although much remains unclear, it seems that things are in fact moving towards tying some things together, so obviously there is an overall plan in place here. So far we have seen enough of it that we can at least speculate about a number of things, and month by month we can see whether we were at least partly correct or completely on the wrong track. I'm not sure whether the religious / metaphysical "big picture" is really all that profound or actually rather superficial, but the little pieces that fit into it are interesting and are at least a bit less mysterious than they were at first, so I'm satisfied with how far the story has come, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes next.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugdave View Post
    The issue with stuff like this is that the payoff better be AMAZING or it feels like you got snookered.
    I understand what you're saying about the book being a little frustrating but I think it just rewards you for rereading. After season one I'll reread them all and I'm sure some things will make more sense the 2nd/3rd time around ... and this book is good enough where I don't mind rereading. But it's just about personal tastes and how long you can go without getting all the answers.

    About the payoff having to be amazing .... well part of the problem is people start expecting an amazing payoff and then there is no way to end something that will satisfy everyone. It's like Stephen King's Dark Tower. That took him 22 years to finish, with giant gaps between books. The story is about a gunslinger trying to get to the Dark Tower and for 22 years we all wondered what is he going to find at the end. There is NO way he could pick something that would pay that off. No matter what he did it was going to be like "What?? 20 years and we get that?" I actually think his "first" ending was perfect, but as he said in the book himself he had to put an additional ending for those people who need a payoff.

    I'm ranting a little but to paraphrase King about stories, it's the journey you should be enjoying, not just the promise of a great ending. Otherwise, just read the last chapter when it comes out.

  8. #443
    Junior Member kakitamike's Avatar
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    Lately I felt like this series is better as a trade. That's how i read the first (17?) issues, the three trades. I started reading it monthly in july, and i'm kind of regretting it. These last two books, especially I don't feel like anything is happening. I want some answers before they continue to pile on questions.
    Reading: All New X-men, Batman, Cable+X-force, Harley Quinn, Morning Glories, Sex, Sexy Criminals, Uncanny X-men, Walking Dead, X-men
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  9. #444
    Senior Member passer-by's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seismic-2 View Post
    I don't get the feeling (that I did from the little bit of "Lost" that I watched) that "He's just making this up as he goes along." On the contrary, you can see definite patterns emerging, and although much remains unclear, it seems that things are in fact moving towards tying some things together, so obviously there is an overall plan in place here.
    My sentiments exactly, and I say this as someone who watched practically the entire Lost, including the disappointingly lazy finale.

    And I very much enjoy the Old Testament references like the Trial of Abraham or the Tower of Babel, plus the mentions of other symbols/metaphors like the Cave of Plato, wrapped up in an incredibly fun and entertaining way with the various characters.
    Last edited by passer-by; 12-05-2012 at 12:20 PM.

  10. #445
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    Sorry, double post.
    Last edited by Nick Spencer; 12-05-2012 at 06:49 PM.

  11. #446
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    I kinda figured these last two issues would have some people pulling their hair out. That's okay. There's a lot there to digest. That's because lots of things are coning to a head.

    I've said the same thing about this book from day one. If it's the 5th book in a stack of 10, and you devote the same amount of time to it that you devote to most comics (i.e. fairly quick read, one time over, when the issue is released), you're probably feeling a little confused/overwhelmed. The story simply isn't designed to be consumed that way. It rewards re-reads, it demands more attention, and the more you take your time with it, the better.

    To my eyes, that means more value for your buck. But for some, it's just frustrating, I guess. I think a lot just depends on how much you're willing to devote to a story. Because there are people who get so into this book, they make a full-time hobby of it.

    Really though, if you look at these last few issues, there are a lot more answers than questions-- who were the kids who showed up at the end of 19? Why did it go dark out and the kids ended up separated from the faculty? what is the tower? what is the ceremony? who is the sacrifice? On some of these, you may not have the nuts and bolts, but you do now have an understanding of what they were talking about. For what it's worth.

    This is pretty standard for us, though. No matter which way we go, give it three issues, and you guys wanna go another way. In the first 6, the complaint was we needed to know more about the kids. Then Arc 2 was all about that, and by 10 or so, everyone want to get back to a bigger group story, move the plots forward. Then Arc 3 did that, but some felt it was moving a little slow in terms of conventional progrssion. Now this arc, things are happening very fast, and people feel overwhelmed. When 21 hit, everyone was excited about the new kids, now at 24, they wanna get back to the first group.

    As such, we get to be a book that's criticized both for being too decompressed, and for having too much going on :) We've been hearing "they better start giving answers or I'm dropping it" from the day the 2nd issue came out. The reality is it's a long-form mystery that scheduled to go a long time, and we've always been very upfront about that in the marketing, since the initial solicits.

    My only point being this: the book is obviously built very differently from most. Some will enjoy it, some will hate it. I DO think we're at least past the point where people think we're making it up as we go along. We've simply circled back on too much for that to be true by now. The question really is, can you enjoy the book as a long journey, rather than demanding it's end early? Can you give it the time/attention it requires to enjoy it? No right/wrong answer there, just simply what it is. I obviously hope you stick around, I think the people who do will be glad they did when we're done, but I understand if not. This kind of story is just not for everyone.
    Last edited by Nick Spencer; 12-06-2012 at 01:38 AM.

  12. #447

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    I'm thoroughly enjoying the book and am looking forward to seeing where it goes. This is a book that my wife also reads and it makes for great discussion between us. We both typically have to re-read a few issues each time. Oh, and the art is wonderful!

  13. #448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Spencer View Post
    I kinda figured these last two issues would have some people pulling their hair out. That's okay. There's a lot there to digest. That's because lots of things are coning to a head.

    I've said the same thing about this book from day one. If it's the 5th book in a stack of 10, and you devote the same amount of time to it that you devote to most comics (i.e. fairly quick read, one time over, when the issue is released), you're probably feeling a little confused/overwhelmed. The story simply isn't designed to be consumed that way. It rewards re-reads, it demands more attention, and the more you take your time with it, the better.

    To my eyes, that means more value for your buck. But for some, it's just frustrating, I guess. I think a lot just depends on how much you're willing to devote to a story. Because there are people who get so into this book, they make a full-time hobby of it.

    Really though, if you look at these last few issues, there are a lot more answers than questions-- who were the kids who showed up and killed Zoe? Why did it go dark out and the kids ended up separated from the faculty? what is the tower? what is the ceremony? who is the sacrifice? On some of these, you may not have the nuts and bolts, but you do now have an understanding of what they were talking about. For what it's worth.

    This is pretty standard for us, though. No matter which way we go, give it three issues, and you guys wanna go another way. In the first 6, the complaint was we needed to know more about the kids. Then Arc 2 was all about that, and by 10 or so, everyone want to get back to a bigger group story, move the plots forward. Then Arc 3 did that, but some felt it was moving a little slow in terms of conventional progrssion. Now this arc, things are happening very fast, and people feel overwhelmed. When 21 hit, everyone was excited about the new kids, now at 24, they wanna get back to the first group.

    As such, we get to be a book that's criticized both for being too decompressed, and for having too much going on :) We've been hearing "they better start giving answers or I'm dropping it" from the day the 2nd issue came out. The reality is it's a long-form mystery that scheduled to go a long time, and we've always been very upfront about that in the marketing, since the initial solicits.

    My only point being this: the book is obviously built very differently from most. Some will enjoy it, some will hate it. I DO think we're at least past the point where people think we're making it up as we go along. We've simply circled back on too much for that to be true by now. The question really is, can you enjoy the book as a long journey, rather than demanding it's end early? Can you give it the time/attention it requires to enjoy it? No right/wrong answer there, just simply what it is. I obviously hope you stick around, I think the people who do will be glad they did when we're done, but I understand if not. This kind of story is just not for everyone.
    Wow. Wonderful speech. The points you make are great. It's very different to have the creators of the series here for the ride with us (Though I'm afraid I just spoiled myself. But that just makes me more excited to catch up!) Just finished the first hardcover BTW fantastic! Planning on joining the floppies in Season 2. How long is this hiatus going to be for? 3 months? 6? 9?

  14. #449

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Spencer View Post
    If it's the 5th book in a stack of 10, and you devote the same amount of time to it that you devote to most comics (i.e. fairly quick read, one time over, when the issue is released), you're probably feeling a little confused/overwhelmed. The story simply isn't designed to be consumed that way. It rewards re-reads, it demands more attention, and the more you take your time with it, the better.
    And there you have it. I've lost count of how many times I re-read the first few issues trying to get past the first arc and move on to the second one. I still keep going back to them, and every time I do, they become a bit more meaningful in light of "subsequent" information. There are of course many things in even the very first issue that are still deep mysteries (E.g., who was Brendon, and why did he show signs of martial-arts training since he was neither a Truant nor a Glory? Was he just a "birthday boy" or was he part of some third "team" we haven't met yet? And what was the shocking revelation that he discovered about Vanessa just before David killed him? Was it that she was killed by Hodge before the Academy even opened? And of course many, many others!) This is all a very big puzzle, and as Bell's theorem tells us, reality isn't localized in any region of it, so you have to know the parts to understand the whole, and you have to know the whole to understand the parts. The only way to gain insight into what's going on here is by repeatedly re-reading previous issues after each new one comes out. It may not be until much later that we shall be able to say definitively "What did we see, when our eyes were opened", and there is of course the possibility that we shall be disappointed in the overall grand vision. However, (as other posters have noted), the journey may certainly prove to be worthwhile regardless of the destination, and I feel confident that no matter how frustrating our initial fumbling around may have been in those first few readings of the early issues, as the series moves forward things will get clearer, and then we are in "for a better future" throughout the rest of the story!

    Meanwhile, I shall be looking for more "Bill and Ted" Easter eggs like the one I asked about in #430 - whether they are actually there or not!

  15. #450
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Spencer View Post
    I kinda figured these last two issues would have some people pulling their hair out. That's okay. There's a lot there to digest. That's because lots of things are coning to a head.
    This issue was fine. I'm not entirely certain as to the why, but I can understand what is happening.

    I've not had the time to try to place these events in context, but that's on me. There's probably more that I'm not seeing atm.

    Last issue though, I was full irate. If I cannot understand the 'what' then why it's happening is irrelevant. That was just unecessary complexity for the sake of wanting to appear highbrow. Expecting readers to identify and decode dialogue that you generated with two seconds on Google translator is a cheap tactic. It was lazy on your part.

    That's niether here nor there now though. This latest issue was back on track, and I'm in for the long haul.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

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