Thread Drift: Some art is objectively bad. See One More Day.

[charlesthehammer]

And which retcons are you referring to besides OMD? Which are the ones you have read and disliked and what was at the basis of the dislike? What made the mechanism of the retcon any more illogical or disagreeable than the basis of the comic, period?

I will name two, Norman Osborn faked death and controlling Spideys life from Europe.This made no sense as the goblin serum did not give regeneration powers, and how he was able to gain vast influence with no real wealth made no sense. Sins Past in general, gave another power the serum didnt have and went against Gwens character.

[Schmed]

I think whether or not a retcon works depends on how you feel about the outcome.

Mark_S

Hey, that's what I've been saying...we're just two hoopy froods!

[Regulus B.]

I will name two, Norman Osborn faked death and controlling Spideys life from Europe.This made no sense as the goblin serum did not give regeneration powers, and how he was able to gain vast influence with no real wealth made no sense. Sins Past in general, gave another power the serum didnt have and went against Gwens character.

I'd agree that the second did seem out of character. But as for the first - Goblin serum is a fictional formula that has whatever properties the writers says it has, so I have less of an issue with that one.

That said, even if I didn't like Sins Past, I liked the American Son mini. I think some good can come even from retcons we don't like.

[charlesthehammer]

I'd agree that the second did seem out of character. But as for the first - Goblin serum is a fictional formula that has whatever properties the writers says it has, so I have less of an issue with that one.

That said, even if I didn't like Sins Past, I liked the American Son mini. I think some good can come even from retcons we don't like.

They can, depends how you look at stories, some can ignore the past, which is fine, but some like the past and dont like things that have negative effects on it. SP wasnt that bad as it could be semi-ignored, The clone saga as well. I still think about both everytime I see Norman though.

A so-called passionate, stubborn persistent fan IS actually a troll/stalker.

Oh, well lets judge people who look at comic differently from you, Oh yeah!

[Dean MD]

- Black Cat revealing in Amazing Spider-Man #226 that she faked mental illness in Amazing Spider-Man #205.

Does that really count as a retcon?

[charlesthehammer]

Does that really count as a retcon?

Yeah I dont think so either, but I will give him the Hobgoblin one.

[stephen wacker]

Does that really count as a retcon?

It's the textbook definition.

SW

[KyleDW2]

No. What that points out is that there is a discrepancy between the rationale used to defend OMD and it's change, and the story itself. OMD stated that Peter and MJ's love was very important- enought to get Phisty's attention at least. If we are to believe and ACCEPT that rationale, then to have the creators then turn around and argue that the marriage WASN'T important goes against that rationale and makes it seem like OMD was merely a means to an end rather than a story. And people defending the change with the whole "Marriage doesn't mean that much in the long run" also goes against the rationale of OMD since apparently it did, or else the main antagonist wouldn't have wanted it.

That's pretty much it. If the marriage really didn't mean anything, then what is the entire damn point of OMD and the Mephisto deal?

This is why it should have been done with time travel or something. Then the logic could have just been boiled down to, "Oops." Like Back to the Future. Spider-Man fits being the star of Back to the Future much better than Faust, wouldn't you agree?

[ShaggyB]

That's pretty much it. If the marriage really didn't mean anything, then what is the entire damn point of OMD and the Mephisto deal?

It was an editorial mandated reset of the character to a previous status quo that the publisher felt was best for the company.

Theyve admitted that via interviews and Con Panels. Thats the "entire damn point of OMD"

[KyleDW2]

It was an editorial mandated reset of the character to a previous status quo that the publisher felt was best for the company.

Theyve admitted that via interviews and Con Panels. Thats the "entire damn point of OMD"

So for Marvel, story means dick. Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.

[ShaggyB]

So for Marvel, story means dick. Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.

nah its not that, because some fans here enjoyed OMD and liked it. Marvel will always tell the best story they can. But ultimately if you thought it sucked and still cant figure out why it was told, the answer falls to what i said, it is to get peter to the place they felt was best for him.

Story is still important, but to expect every story to be loved is unrealistic and frankly not something they seem to be doing.

[oldschool]

It was an editorial mandated reset of the character to a previous status quo that the publisher felt was best for the company.

Theyve admitted that via interviews and Con Panels. Thats the "entire damn point of OMD"

Yeah, that's pretty much it for those that missed it the first 90 or 95 million times Marvel said it. Fortunately for them, the strategy seems to be working out quite well, given both the rave critical reviews and sales performance.

[charlesthehammer]

nah its not that, because some fans here enjoyed OMD and liked it. Marvel will always tell the best story they can. But ultimately if you thought it sucked and still cant figure out why it was told, the answer falls to what i said, it is to get peter to the place they felt was best for him.

Story is still important, but to expect every story to be loved is unrealistic and frankly not something they seem to be doing.

No, If they did that OMD wouldnt have been told at all. They were willing to tell a bad story if it got them the ends the Status Quo they wanted.

[ShaggyB]

No, If they did that OMD wouldnt have been told at all. They were willing to tell a bad story if it got them the ends the Status Quo they wanted.

So its universally bad and clearly anyone saying that they liked it are obviously lie'n to us?

[oldschool]

No, If they did that OMD wouldnt have been told at all. They were willing to tell a bad story if it got them the ends the Status Quo they wanted.

Untrue. While I think it was a bad story, it's a pretty safe bet Marvel did not intentionally release what they thought was a "bad" story just as noone intends to release a "bad" song or TV show or movie, etc. People do their best and sometimes we don't like what they think is a good effort. Plus, some people do like it----just as some people think Ringo is the coolest Beatle!