CBR: Cup O' Joe - Aug 5, 2011

[Roquefort Raider]

Maybe not directly relevant, but I find it funny how some people dislikes the idea of Miles replacing Peter since he's a completely new character, but they would be okay with Ultimate Miguel O'Hara
That would be a character just as new as Miles

I don't think it's his being new that some people will object to; it's that he's replacing the "real" ultimate Spider-Man in his own book. Miguel O'hara may have been called Spider-man, but he wasn't replacing Peter; he was a different character in a different continuity and his creation had no impact on Peter's life. Miles, for his part, starts his career with the unenviable stigma of replacing a fan favorite who wasn't killed because the series plot asked for it, but because he was in the way of a new, hipper, cooler version of a brand name.

[Hulk_Is]

Congrats, Joe for the commisision from the POTUS himself!

[Supermutant2099]

Yeah he is delusional but guess you have to be to be charge of marvel and dc. Him and dido both are. After Jeph Loeb massacring the Ultimate Universe and Peter being killed this is just a idea that needs to be put to bed. Great concept, great versions of favorite characters, great books. They are pretty much all gone and now we are left with this wreck of universe.

[jyeager11]

« This new Spider-Man isn't just black – he's also Latino,
which pretty much doubles the 'WTF' factor. »
–Brian Michael Bendis
Writer, Ultimate Spider-Man

Full Article

...

[Sighphi]

No he didn't, he said Mark had an idea about it as did he, Mark told him he had an idea and Joe Q said he did too and they talked about it

Dude, in his version of the story he already had the idea and already discussed it with Bendis...... at this point i dont even know why Millar's name is even mentioned as the idea just needs the details that writers always come up with. And by the way, Breevort was involve in ALL that stuff which somehow he forgot.

Shenanigans, i say! Shenanigans!

[RolandJP]

Maybe not directly relevant, but I find it funny how some people dislikes the idea of Miles replacing Peter since he's a completely new character, but they would be okay with Ultimate Miguel O'Hara
That would be a character just as new as Miles

It is odd given the History of replacing characters.



Hercules Taking over for the HULK

[TheNewDC]

I don't think it's his being new that some people will object to; it's that he's replacing the "real" ultimate Spider-Man in his own book. Miguel O'hara may have been called Spider-man, but he wasn't replacing Peter; he was a different character in a different continuity and his creation had no impact on Peter's life. Miles, for his part, starts his career with the unenviable stigma of replacing a fan favorite who wasn't killed because the series plot asked for it, but because he was in the way of a new, hipper, cooler version of a brand name.

Your totally right. I mean, no one made a big deal when they made Nick Fury black in the Ultimate universe. In fact, if asked, most people would likely say they like the newer version.

[Emissary of Justice]

I absolutely love this image.

[Vijinand]

I'm astonished at how irresponsible everyone at Marvel has been, Quesada included, in talking about Ultimate Spider-Man. They're all framing the issue of Miles Morales as something completely different from what it truly is. Forget race. Forget ethnicity. This is about a trend in Ultimate that has completely killed that series. It's about killing characters and acting as though they can be replaced. That wasn't mentioned at all. It was all "Look! We've made a black Spider-Man! Pay attention to us! Get outraged! Give us some good press!" It's really dishonest and incredibly disingenuous.

The problem isn't Miles Morales. The problem is that he's replacing Peter Parker. And he isn't just replacing him. His whole involvement with Peter Parker is being completely contrived out of thin air. Miles never showed up before in Ultimate Spider-Man. He was never overtly effected by Peter at any point. There was no story showing him establishing himself in the Ultimate universe in the same way that Spider-Woman or Ben Riley had done. Out of nowhere, Marvel just creates him and the only way they can fit him into the Ultimate Universe is to essentially conjure a story out of absolutely nothing. You couldn't get more contrived if that was Miles's middle name.

I'll cite stories like All New All Different X-men. That was a major change in the guard and it infused diversity into comics. And the original X-men didn't have to be killed in order for it to happen. I tended up being one of the best comics of all time. So why is it that Marvel thinks it's necessary to kill Peter Parker in order for Miles Morales to be Spider-Man? It's completely asinine and shows a level of creative bankruptcy that is completely without excuse.

Joe used the word 'stunt' liberally. This isn't a stunt. It's a gimmick. A bi-racial Spider-Man is a complete gimmick in that they're not focusing on the story. They're just focusing on his race and that's just getting publicity. If Marvel really didn't care about it, they wouldn't have made nearly as big a deal of it. And if Miles Morales was really that good a character then he wouldn't have to leech from Peter Parker in the first place.

It's also worth noting that this is the second time Ultimate has relaunched. The first time after they killed so many great characters in Ultimatum, we had a similar gimmick. We had a replacement Wolverine. We had a replacement Daredevil for a while. We got a replacement Black Widow, a replacement Wasp, and a replacement Giant Man. Is it really that surprising that it didn't do as well the second time around? Now they're relaunching again after yet another big death event in Death of Spider-Man. Yet they have the gall to call this a bold new idea? It's not. It's stupid and it's asinine. John Byrne is right. It is creative bankrupcy. But Alan Moore said it best when he was talking about the DC relaunch, "The entire world of comics seems to me, from what I’m reading in the proper newspapers over here, on the point of collapse. It seems that both of the major companies are going through some rather frantic thrashings as they try to retool their kind of flagging cosmoses by pulling the usual tricks, because, really, I don’t expect them to have any new ones."

I think it's incredibly ironic that Marvel, the company that coined the phrase with great power comes great responsibility, is being so irresponsible. They tried replacing Peter Parker in 616 with the Clone Saga. They tried replacing the many characters they callously threw away in Ultimatum. It's done nothing but lead to more gimmicks. It's a real shame that Ultimate is now the sandbox for dumb ideas like Ultimatum and replacement characters to flourish. Marvel is better than this. In the short term, the gimmick will get people talking. But in the long term, they'll find out that replacement characters and gimmicks don't sustain a series. Changing for the sake of change isn't change. It's stupid. Change is constant, but responsible change is productive change. There's no reason that Miles Morales couldn't have emerged in Ultimate without killing Peter Parker. Marvel did it for the shock value and the gimmick. There's no other way to look at it. They can pretend that it was done for the sake of the story. That doesn't make it any less a gimmick. If they can't see that from the perspective of their fans then they are completely irresponsible. I understand that they have a hard job, trying to satisfy as many fans as possible. But shocking fans and pulling lame gimmicks like this really doesn't work in the long run. New ideas don't have to come at the expense of old stories. Avengers, Gwen Stacy, and all those other stories that were mentioned didn't have to destroy so much to gain so little. In the end, it's irresponsible for Marvel to pull a gimmick like this. Quesada can paint it any way he wants. A gimmick is a gimmick. He and Bendis had great power over a great series and they completely abused it.

Well said!

[Vijinand]

Your totally right. I mean, no one made a big deal when they made Nick Fury black in the Ultimate universe. In fact, if asked, most people would likely say they like the newer version.

I totally agree! I would've been fine if Peter was black, asian, native america, or whatever when Ultimate Spidey was launched (as long as he was in New York). Ultimate Nick Fury is cool, because he's still Nick Fury.

[tesh_karde]

Congrats, Joe for the commisision from the POTUS himself!

Seconded! Congrats!

[Manphibian]

Do you ever think that people at Marvel disagree with each others ideas and storylines? Besides JMS, I find it sad that these artists don't ever fight for their storylines and instead do what the man on top demands(since he seems to know what Joe Public wants). And than they go off and do interviews and act like everything is according to how they wanted it(I'll always call B.S. on recent Cap events).

[ZeoVGM]

Ah, baseless Joe hate. Always fun.

Can't wait for the new USM series. It's by Bendis so I'm looking forward to it. And I don't care that Peter is being replaced as long as the book continues to be good.

[Blade X]

One thing I've been really excited and talking about consistently is our upcoming "Ultimate Spider-Man" animated show that's coming to Disney XD in 2012. What makes this Spider-Man cartoon really special and unique is that, while there have been many great Spidey shows in the past, it's the first Spidey cartoon made by Marvel. Marvel writers and artists worked directly on this show so it's going to have more Marvel DNA than any show that has come previously.

This isn't true. SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS,the early 80's solo syndicated solo SPIDER-MAN cartoon,and the 90's solo SPIDER-MAN cartoon were all produced and made by Marvel's own animation studios (MARVEL PRODUCTIONS and MARVEL FILMS).

[deathcry]

. Joe wasn't involved in the start of the Ultimate universe, that was Bob before him. Yet he takes the credit.

Considering Bill jemas was co-writer of Ultimate Spider-man, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Harras had nothing to do with the Ultimate line, and that Quesada saying he was involved, is probably true.