CBR: Cup O' Joe - Aug 5, 2011

[alf_to_the_rescue]

3. Cecilia Reyes was ordered to be killed off by the editors, but a mistake or misunderstanding left her alive. She was later depowered.

No she wasn't. She is still very much powered and protecting people from the Juggernaut as we speak.

[RolandJP]

I tried getting back into Ultimates but when I saw Black Hulk I dropped it.

That is why i tradewait on Millar. I was burned on Nemesis. By doing so it gives me enough time to read reviews and scans from the issue that way im not surprised. RE: Wanted limited series and the last panel.

[Blade X]

Speaking of which, is there anyone who has anything planned for the current Goliath or no?

I really wish Dan Slott would have used the new Goliath in his excellent MIGHTY AVENGERS run instead of Stature. Especially since he had plans for the previous Goliath (Bill Foster) during his short lived THING series.

[Blade X]

The reason the Black Hulk was so stereotypical is, because powered down he is an old frail guy and his fantasy was to be the kind of guy he was as the Black Hulk.

And how does that excuses him being an insulting stereotype?

[Blade X]

No she wasn't. She is still very much powered and protecting people from the Juggernaut as we speak.

I stand corrected on the part of her being depowered. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

[Brian from Canada]

Okay so if Miles doesnt act like Pete hes off the hook right?? going by your logic.

yeah, right.

Yes, right. This is a new Spider-Man, so he shouldn't be like the old Spider-Man… yet in this very article there's mention of a concerted effort to find a way to have Miles have similar motivation to be doing the same thing.

Point is that he didn't have to. He should have come in through his own motivation. For Rhodey, it was job preservation. For Bucky, it was redemption and honour. For Ben Reilly, it was his true legacy.

I still think Marvel is doing a piss-poor job of selling it to fans what makes Miles so special. And that's sad to me because the existing customer base IS the important base that talks about comics and spreads it around to other readers. They're the ones talking to the store owner/manager about the comics that the casual customer hears. They have a place in the marketing scheme whether or not Marvel likes it… and this seems to be turning some people off rather than getting them excited as it should be, sadly.

My point being why does this explode when its a minority. And labeling this as a gimmick is insane.

They are all gimmicks. Torch Dying. Captain America Dying. Hawkeye becoming Ronin. So lets get that out the way.

There's a difference between gimmick and important plot point that develops out of story. In this case, it's more gimmick because the point is to shake things up a lot and give you a new Spider-Man, whether the story needed it or not. (Torch dying, Cap dying… those were built into story as casualties of event, and it's not like Hawkeye's never changed identities before.)

This Justification for Bias is an example of EXTREME Denial. Ask yourselves why you dont give the book a chance on the same level as others. Why do you want the same stories over and over and over and over and over again??

First, I'm not biased against hispanic characters. Let's get that clear right away. One of the characters that brought me back into Marvel was Angelo Espinoza, a Chicano with so much baggage it screamed depth right from the start.

What I am against is the replacing of a character for the sake of just replacing one — especially with an iconic one that Marvel has to know will be criticized for race because this is the exact point in time they are being criticized for a weak outreach to another segment of the audience (Girls Comics) and their distinguished competition is busy promoting a "more diverse" version of their universe beginning this month.

This ain't gonna be the new Spider-Man. It's gonna be the hispanic Spidey. That's how people will identify him, just as Bill Foster was Black Goliath — the race will be integrated right in. Quesada could have used this opportunity to simply state "Yes, he's hispanic — but let's talk about Spider-Man and the need we felt for change." Instead, he says there's a need for change, and look at this new, ethnically diverse character they've introduced.

It disappoints me, but don't call it racism. That angers me most — the way people trigger race and hatred as code words when those things are completely different. (The killing of minority characters in Marvel, particularly Generation X, is another thing entirely.)

As for giving it a try, I may, but the odds are against it for reasons completely different than the character itself: I simply find Marvel made a fundamental error in the Ultimate universe that this just perpetuates.

[Brian from Canada]

Anyway your misguided anger aside,

It's not anger, it's disappointment. This may come as a shock to some people, but there are more than two emotions on the Internet than the extremes you seem to prefer, HATE and LOVE.

Note that I ended my statement with a frown (), which doesn't indicate anger but sadness and/or disappointment. Again, it's all to do with the emoticons.

Or to put it another way: E-mail and Internet are the hardest to convey tone with. In the case of Marvel, it's becoming ever clear that Steven Wacker loves to HATE and RIDICULE those he converses with simply by the words, even though there may be different emotions actually behind them like bewilderment, sarcasm, confusion, etc. — we just don't know. Because it appears there's no time to think about how some of these words are going to be interpreted when there are other things to do (like edit comics, etc.).

Only takes a moment to be polite, you know. At least, that's a motto here in Canada.

[Kasper Cole]

It amazes me how many people around here can see into the future.

[Monty_Cristo]

First, I'm not biased against hispanic characters. Let's get that clear right away. One of the characters that brought me back into Marvel was Angelo Espinoza, a Chicano with so much baggage it screamed depth right from the start.

are we talking about him being a gang banger?

[charlesthehammer]

It amazes me how many people around here can see into the future.

Yeah both sides are pretty bad at that.

[Kasper Cole]

Yeah both sides are pretty bad at that.

I don't agree with that at all. The pro side is mostly going by what the creative team is saying in interviews. The con side is dismissing those interviews and in some cases assuming they know everything about the character.

[charlesthehammer]

I don't agree with that at all. The pro side is mostly going by what the creative team is saying in interviews. The con side is dismissing those interviews and in some cases assuming they know everything about the character.

Well I wouldnt expect you to, to say you will like the character (or hate) with only what we have is stupid. But if your allowed to use interviews and six pages then people can use the fact he tells jokes (and is written by Bendis who has issues making characters sound different) to judge beforehand. I dont think judging him now is fair but you either accept judgment for both sides or none at all.

[Brian from Canada]

I was burned on Nemesis.

I was burned on Ultimates 2. It lacked character events needed to hold it together.

My real problem with the Ultimate universe is that, no matter how much they wanted to be a continuity-light universe — and Bendis did just that with two amazing series, Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate Marvel Team-Up — The X-Men went to the crisis well too many times to give the impression of anything else but being on the run… and there are only so many threats to be on the run from before you get bored.

"Ultimatum" fixed in a way that was shocking and Earth-shaking, but that should have been the wake-up call to the other books to see what went wrong. Instead, Ultimate Fantastic Four led to Ultimate Enemy (blah), Ultimates 3's follow up was better but still weak, and nobody talked about Ultimate X anywhere.

Ultimate Spider-Man was the one book that was consistently strong, and using it to shake up the others doesn't really inspire me with confidence that the other books will improve because of this. Ultimate Spider-Man may be good — Bendis IS a good writer for interpersonal drama — but this isn't the solution that's gonna make me see Ultimate as being the interesting side attraction.

Especially when it's being used as a testing ground for 616. 616's motto goal is to retrench around the core and get what's working staying working — something I think Mr. Wacker and Mr. Slott are starting to do with Amazing a bit more often — and making radical changes because they're cool conflicts with that concept.

[Chaos_Alfa]

Some preview pages for the first issue of Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man have been released. You can find them here.

[Kasper Cole]

Well I wouldnt expect you to, to say you will like the character (or hate) with only what we have is stupid. But if your allowed to use interviews and six pages then people can use the fact he tells jokes (and is written by Bendis who has issues making characters sound different) to judge beforehand. I dont think judging him now is fair but you either accept judgment for both sides or none at all.

I don't think he was telling jokes at all. Most of the "jokes" come from the situation and the way other people react, not from Miles.