From Brave and the Bold's Mitefall: A CGI-Batgirl Segment

[Guglio08]

I clearly explained that the implied point by the makers of the cartoon was that a female-centric bat-cartoon was the "joke", which came across to me as somewhat sexist.

How do you know that that was the implied point? I very highly doubt that DC would imply an incredibly sexist message in their own cartoon. I think you're reading FAR too into this. And, as much as you would hate to admit it, Batgirl, despite her supposed popularity, is still a part of the BATMAN franchise. If you dress up as a bat to fight crime, you're with Batman.

[Hromovlad]

or they may have been taking a jab at this sort of attitude from the producers

[pryde15]

I would totally watch this, but I'd much rather see a Batman Famly CGI cartoon.

[batGRRRl4ever]

That's true but as a little kid I didn't know that at a time. Also you Can't really discount oracle as a character.

(sigh) I wasn't discounting the oracle identity as it had nothing to do with the point I was making.

[MajorHoy]

I was talking about the comparison of Robin's as sidekick's and the fact that the original Batgirl was never a sidekick, she was always independent.

You expanded the conversation to include Nightwing, a character specifically made back in Teen Titans for Dick to officially declare his independence as a new identity separate from Batman (considering he became Batman shows how well he did in that regard, lol). The original Batgirl has never required to expand to a new identity (the oracle identity is a separate issue) as she was never a sidekick in the first place, thus negating a need to have Batman in a promo if she ever gets one for a cartoon of her own.

Just because you appear to prefer Barbara Gordon as Batgirl over ANY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE BAT-FRANCHISE doesn't mean you can spout any unqualified nonsense you want to try and make your position seem stronger! Have you answered my previous question / challenge to your statement that " . . . It was Batgirl who was taken out of the Batman Family comic to be a back-up to Batman Detective to save it from cancellation . . . " (see current post # 66)? If you did, I missed the answer.

And now you're making a ridiculous statement about "You expanded the conversation to include Nightwing, a character specifically made back in Teen Titans for Dick to officially declare his independence as a new identity separate from Batman (considering he became Batman shows how well he did in that regard, lol).", but did you read the stories where he became Batman and the reasons why? (And now that Bruce is back, he is reclaiming his separte identity again, isn't he?)

Don't you think you can try to make your case for Babs as Batgirl without being so offensive and seemingly pissing all over every other character?

[shark]

Remember how you were just saying a week ago to be more respectful to different aspects of characters, yet you decide to call Babs/Batgirl's look a "joke"? I thought it looked AMAZING and was the only saving grace of that badly written show.

Oh for Christ's sake. Are you always this defensive? I was talking about the bloody portrayal in the bloody show. Just like Batgirl (and Batman and Robin) looked like a joke in Batman and Robin, Batgirl's costume is ridiculous in the Birds of Prey show, especially because the actress playing her - while alright for Oracle - was way too old to play Batgirl.

Of course there isn't, that wasn't my point. You did read my intro to this thread right? I clearly explained that the implied point by the makers of the cartoon was that a female-centric bat-cartoon was the "joke", which came across to me as somewhat sexist. But of course DC has a history of denigrating their female properties.

There's nothing in this short that can be seen as an insult. You are just defensive of everything that involves Babsgirl and does not meet your standards. I would be elated if Cassandra or Steph got this treatment. You get Babs in animated form - again - and you are still complaining. Do you know how expensive a 3D animated short is? Do you think DC would waste so much money in a 2 minute joke?

And she even had her own comic book way back in I think the 60's. But she's just a girlfriend support character and isn't even a superhero.

And even as a human love interest she's still more iconic than Barbara Gordon. You ask a random person who she is, and that person will know. Ask who Barbara Gordon - even Batgirl - is and I could bet you won't get the same results.

When you get bumped between two networks I'm not so sure that can be defined as largely successful (although I was a big fan of the show as a kid).

Everybody and their mothers saw that show. Stop nitpicking. Fact is that Wonder Woman had a highly successful show where she was the main star. Batgirl did not.

Oh ! It was Batgirl who was brought into Batman's 3rd season of his 60's tv show in a last ditch attempt to save it. It was Batgirl who was taken out of the Batman Family comic to be a back-up to Batman Detective to save it from cancellation. And in the final iteration of Bruce Timm's animated Batman series it was Batgirl who was made to be Batman's fulltime support to make the series fresher and appeal to a wider audience base.

Sometimes it has been Batman who has needed Batgirl, but of course diehard Batman fans are loath to admit this.

This is ridiculous. Batgirl wouldn't even exist without Batman. Batgirl's most famous recent show was a Batman show. She was never a main character. Batman is the star, she's a secondary character outside her own comics, just like Robin, And this is true for all Batgirls.

I get it, you like Babsgirl, but you are overrating her importance beyond belief.

[batGRRRl4ever]

....doesn't[/B][/I] mean you can spout any unqualified nonsense you want to try and make your position seem stronger! Have you answered my previous challenge? If you did, I missed the answer.

And now you're making a ridiculous statement Don't you think you can try to make your case for Babs as Batgirl without being so offensive and seemingly pissing all over every other character?

Funny, your the one coming off all nasty and insulting saying I am "spouting unqualified nonsense" and making "ridiculous statements". Just because your a senior member does not mean you can go off attacking and insulting other posters who don't agree with you and be all offensive (your own words). I didn't reply to you before because it's obvious you are flaming and not being cordial. Respectfully, if you apologize for your lack of manners maybe I will reply back.

Oh for Christ's sake. Are you always this defensive? Batgirl's costume is ridiculous in the Birds of Prey show, especially because the actress playing her - while alright for Oracle - was way too old to play Batgirl.

That is your opinion about the actress being Batgirl, I respectfully do not share it. And IMHO, saying things like "C*****'s sake" & "ridiculous" shows a defensiveness on your part. I'd respectfully call that projection. Also I did take a slight offense to the part about Batgirl's uniform being a "joke" because I get it, you like oracle. But you did not follow your request from last week to be respectful to other versions of Batgirl's and seem to be showing a do as I say but not as I do approach to the threads, at least in this instance.

I would respectfully state that both shark and majorhoy look in the mirror before throwing accusations of posters being not nice or fair. It's called glass houses. In my opinion it has been both of you projecting, and I don't appreciate the nastiness. Manners are a two-way street and I am more than happy and ready to engage if you both seem fit to apologize for your rudeness. Otherwise I respectfully choose to ignore further posts.

[shingi70]

What's wrong with the actress playing Oracle. The show takes place years after the Killing Joke and Batman had disappeared.

[batGRRRl4ever]

What's wrong with the actress playing Oracle. The show takes place years after the Killing Joke and Batman had disappeared.

Absolutely nothing. She was a great actress either way, I just preferred the very few scenes she had as Batgirl being a Batgirl fan. It's apples and oranges, say we get a Batgirl cartoon and it stays true to the new 52 Batgirl come September. She'd be Batgirl but with just a few short oracle flashbacks. For fans of oracle I bet they'd be keeping their eyes peeled for those flashbacks in this potential cartoon, same as I did with Batgirl in the BoP tv show. Apples and oranges.

[shark]

That is your opinion about the actress being Batgirl, I respectfully do not share it. And IMHO, saying things like "C*****'s sake" & "ridiculous" shows a defensiveness on your part. I'd respectfully call that projection. Also I did take a slight offense to the part about Batgirl's uniform being a "joke" because I get it, you like oracle. But you did not follow your request from last week to be respectful to other versions of Batgirl's and seem to be showing a do as I say but not as I do approach to the threads, at least in this instance.

I would respectfully state that both shark and majorhoy look in the mirror before throwing accusations of posters being not nice or fair. It's called glass houses. In my opinion it has been both of you projecting, and I don't appreciate the nastiness. Manners are a two-way street and I am more than happy and ready to engage if you both seem fit to apologize for your rudeness. Otherwise I respectfully choose to ignore further posts.

You implied I wasn't being respectful to Barbara Gordon as a character, which is a lie. That's like saying I don't respect the character of Batman because he was ridiculous in Batman and Robin. You are finding offense when there's none. The costume looked ridiculous to me, the actress looked wrong as Batgirl to me. Of course this is an opinion, isn't what this is all about?

You being so defensive over anything you consider a slight towards Babsgirl and taking offense every time somebody disagrees with you is what makes people not take you seriously. Don't blame me for your lack of arguments.

What's wrong with the actress playing Oracle. The show takes place years after the Killing Joke and Batman had disappeared.

She was perfect for Oracle, but not for Batgirl. That was my point, A woman that looks like she's in her thirties can't play Batgirl for obvious reasons. The costume didn't help.

[MajorHoy]

Funny, your the one coming off all nasty and insulting saying I am "spouting unqualified nonsense" and making "ridiculous statements". Just because your a senior member does not mean you can go off attacking and insulting other posters who don't agree with you and be all offensive (your own words). I didn't reply to you before because it's obvious you are flaming and not being cordial. Respectfully, if you apologize for your lack of manners maybe I will reply back.

My original post was as follows:

Huh? I use to buy comics back in the 1970's . . . don't remember Batgirl being taken out of Batman Family to save Detective Comics from cancellation. I remember she had a back-up slot in Detective Comics early in the 1970's, and later resumed that spot. I remember when Batman Family was made in to a dollar comic, then got dropped as a separate title and sort of merged into Detective Comics for a while (though some non-Bat-family members like Black Lightning, Atom, and Red Tornado, to name a few few, were also part of that), but I don't remember Batgirl being yanked out of Batman Family specifically because her presence was needed to save Detective Comics.

Do you have any quotes or something that back this claim up?

I do not see how that qualifies as " . . . it's obvious you are flaming and not being cordial. Respectfully, if you apologize for your lack of manners maybe I will reply back."

I see no reason why I should apologize for that. It was a simple "I don't remember it the way you are presenting it . . . do you have any proof for your claim?" I haven't seen any proof yet on your part, and I don't think my posts qualify as "flaming", while your posts seem to have annoyed quite a few people as being less-than-respectful. You appear to have a chip on your shoulder, and any comment that might possibly not agree with you 100% seems to be "flaming" you. I fail to see how your attitude is likely to be a winning one rather than an annoying one that is more likely to alienate people from your opinion (no matter how much some people may have been willing to see some things your way).

[batGRRRl4ever]

You implied I wasn't being respectful to Barbara Gordon as a character, which is a lie. The costume looked ridiculous to me, the actress looked wrong as Batgirl to me.

You being so defensive over anything...and taking offense every time somebody disagrees with you is what makes people not take you seriously.

She was perfect for Oracle, but not for Batgirl. That was my point, A woman that looks like she's in her thirties can't play Batgirl for obvious reasons. The costume didn't help.

Your last point, her age has nothing to do with it (my opinion) Barbara will always be Batgirl even in a flashforward I'd bet.

The second point about you again projecting defensiveness:

http://blogs.roanoke.com/vignette/fi.../02/jaws-2.jpg

I respectfully say that you really do put out a "do as I say but not as I do" approach to the threads. And as you seem to think you do not need to be cordial to other posters as you expect in return, this site has the wonderful "ignore poster" option to which I have just added you to. I already expect you will say something snarky like I will eventually have everyone ignored on my list, yada, yada, but thankfully I will not have to read it and concentrate on talking with posters who have cordial manners.

[shingi70]

The costume doesn't look bad. And the context of the episode was her facing a villain from the past and redonning the suit. It makes sense she wouldn't look the same as a 20 year old wearing it.

[batGRRRl4ever]

The costume doesn't look bad. And the context of the episode was her facing a villain from the past and redonning the suit. It makes sense she wouldn't look the same as a 20 year old wearing it.

Dinah was amazing either way in Barbara's role, in that we can all agree!

[shingi70]

Dinah was amazing either way in Barbara's role, in that we can all agree!

Yes we can. I really like that suit its better than the other one. Also has anyone noticed that babs gets the shaft in a lot of cartoons.