Defenders Appreciation

[Nomads1]

Thanks for the hint,buddy.

Ok, I've looked it up. The original Defenders were Dr Strange, the Hulk and the Sub-Mariner. Surprisingly the Surfer was not there at the beginning. The original 3 members featured in several adventures together in Marvel Feature #1-3 and Defenders#1 and the Surfer didn't appear until Defenders #2.

I've just thought of an coincidence with the Avengers. Captain America didn't appear until Avengers #4 yet many still think that he's an original Avenger (he has founder status) and the Surfer didn't appear until the fourth issue of the Defenders (counting the Marvel Feature issues) and many today still think of him as an original Defender.

It's because of Titans Three that people think of Silver Surfer as an original Defender, IMO. Valkyrie also joined in #4 of Defenders, and most don't consider her an original member ... though I think of her and Nighthawk as core members, myself. They certainly stuck around longer than Namor or the Hulk or the Silver Surfer.

The fact that the Surfer is considered a fourth founding member is in part due to the Titans Three, but that was the reason why he was one of the three that Strange tried to summon in the first official Defenders mission, against Yon Rogg. Strange actually sent his astral form after the Surfer, only to find him incapacitated after another fruitless attempt of piercing Galactus' barrier around the Earth. Had he arrived only a couple of minutes earlier, the Surfer would have been on that first mission. I guess that, when the Surfer eventtually did join the team, the other members saw this as preordained, Fate correcting its own mistake.

Peace

[Rheged]

Would you say Valk and Nighthawk are to the defenders what Clint, Scarlet Witch, Pietro and classic Vision were to the Avengers (prior to him whom I shall not name took over, that is it)? Or if not, how do their relationship compare?

I think that's a valid comparison. Like Cap's Kooky Trio, Valkyrie and Nighthawk started out as villains. They both joined the Defenders fairly early in the book and became core members. They both were pretty much defined in the their respective team books, since neither had any solo outings for quite a long time.

I think that's a fair assessment, although I'd include Hellcat in that list as well. She didn't join the team until much later, but she certainly became a mainstay and formed the heart of the team alongside Valkyrie and Nighthawk.

I don't think I read the Defenders long enough to see Hellcat in such a light, but she did have quite a long run in the Defenders it appears.

Which brings up the question of who do folks think of as core members of the Defenders? For me, it's Namor, Doctor Strange, the Hulk, Val, and Nighthawk ... and Silver Surfer ... sort of.

[Rheged]

The fact that the Surfer is considered a fourth founding member is in part due to the Titans Three, but that was the reason why he was one of the three that Strange tried to summon in the first official Defenders mission, against Yon Rogg. Strange actually sent his astral form after the Surfer, only to find him incapacitated after another fruitless attempt of piercing Galactus' barrier around the Earth. Had he arrived only a couple of minutes earlier, the Surfer would have been on that first mission. I guess that, when the Surfer eventtually did join the team, the other members saw this as preordained, Fate correcting its own mistake.

Peace

Yes, that's true. Surfer does make an appearance of sorts, but doesn't take part in the story or join the group. Which now that I think about it, may be why Giffen did what he did with Surfer in Indefensible. But Casey goes back to this idea of a the original Defenders being preordained and that their number had to be a very specific four, to represent four certain aspects. Or was it elements?

[Bad Wolf]

Which brings up the question of who do folks think of as core members of the Defenders? For me, it's Namor, Doctor Strange, the Hulk, Val, and Nighthawk ... and Silver Surfer ... sort of.

My first exposure to the group was in the #80s-90s, so I consider Nighthawk, Valkyrie and Hellcat to be core members. Since they didn't have books of their own I almost consider them more important than Strange or Hulk. Or rather I identify them more with the team.

I don't think of the Surfer when I think of Defenders, even though he did hang around for a while.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Yes, that's true. Surfer does make an appearance of sorts, but doesn't take part in the story or join the group. Which now that I think about it, may be why Giffen did what he did with Surfer in Indefensible. But Casey goes back to this idea of a the original Defenders being preordained and that their number had to be a very specific four, to represent four certain aspects. Or was it elements?

Didn't Thor's name get a mention when Dr Strange first brought the team together?

[Rheged]

Didn't Thor's name get a mention when Dr Strange first brought the team together?

Hmmm. I don't think so. Now, Thor and the rest of the Avengers fought the Titans Three. IIRC, he faced off against Hulk.

[Rheged]

My first exposure to the group was in the #80s-90s, so I consider Nighthawk, Valkyrie and Hellcat to be core members. Since they didn't have books of their own I almost consider them more important than Strange or Hulk. Or rather I identify them more with the team.

I don't think of the Surfer when I think of Defenders, even though he did hang around for a while.

I think of Surfer as a Defender, as opposed to any other Earth team, but even so, not so much a core member. He just wasn't around consistently, or defined himself in the group, like Nighthawk and Val. Of the original three, I think of Dr. Strange as the most connected to the Defenders. He certainly had to play referee the most often. LOL!

[Ken Ashcroft]

Hmmm. I don't think so. Now, Thor and the rest of the Avengers fought the Titans Three. IIRC, he faced off against Hulk.

No, I talking about the Defenders first appearance in Marvel Feature when Dr Strange brought the team together for the first time.

[Rheged]

No, I talking about the Defenders first appearance in Marvel Feature when Dr Strange brought the team together for the first time.

No, I don't think so. There's some doctors in that issue, that try to save Yandroth, but I don't think any of them are Donald Blake. And Strange pretty much went straight for Namor, IIRC. I'll double check when I get home.

[kcekada]

Anyone know when or if a third volume of Marvel Masterworks: The Defenders is coming out?

I'm really anxious to get into the Gerber era. Also want to see that Gil Kane/Klaus Janson G.S. Defenders story reprinted with today's printing.

Each month I look at Marvel's solicitations expecting to see a new volume -- and end up disappointed!

[Rheged]

@kcekada -- I haven't heard anything either. It seems overdue, but there was a long wait between Volume 1 and 2 also. :(

But tomorrow, I think ESSENTIAL DEFENDERS #6 will be out at the LCBS!



Written by J.M. DEMATTEIS, MARK GRUENWALD, STEVEN GRANT & DON PERLIN
Penciled by DON PERLIN, SAL BUSCEMA, AL MILGROM & KERRY GAMMILL
Cover by SANDY PLUNKETT
The Hulk! Dr. Strange! Namor! The Silver Surfer! The Beast! Valkyrie! Gargoyle! Along with their offbeat allies Daimon Hellstrom, Hellcat, Overmind, Iceman and Moondragon, they are Defenders all — but which heroes will stay, and which ones will go? And why? Witness the dynamic non-team’s amazing adventures in Asgard, against all-powerful aliens, in Hell and in a dimension of rhyming aliens! Plus: the secret origins of Valkyrie and the truth behind the Elf with a Gun! Collecting DEFENDERS (1972) #107-124, NEW DEFENDERS #125, AVENGERS ANNUAL #11 and MARVEL TEAM-UP (1972) #119.
498 PGS./Rated A …$19.99

[Global Honored]

It's Papa Hagg from the Kurt Busiek/Erik Larsen Defenders book.

Indeed. Good catch Kenny, thanks.

[Nomads1]

Although a non-team, there are ten members that I think make up the most relevant and lasting line-up. Don't know if I'd call them a core membership or the most perfect line-up.
Dr. Strange, Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer, Val, Nighthawk, Hellcat, Son of Satan, Gargoyle and... Clea!

Peace

[Rheged]

Although a non-team, there are ten members that I think make up the most relevant and lasting line-up. Don't know if I'd call them a core membership or the most perfect line-up.
Dr. Strange, Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer, Val, Nighthawk, Hellcat, Son of Satan, Gargoyle and... Clea!

Peace

I'm so glad you mentioned Clea. She doesn't get the recognition she deserves. And I left her off my list too! :(

[yvahed]

I'm so glad you mentioned Clea. She doesn't get the recognition she deserves.

Yes Clea I believe appeared more consistently through the first series than the Silver Surfer.

And The Beast appeared in almost all of the last 50 issues - definitely more appearances than the Surfer.

For me the Defenders that featured most prominently are in this order:

1. Doc Strange
2. Valkyrie
3. Hulk
4. Hellcat
5. Nighthawk (died around #100)
6. Namor
7. Clea
8. Gargoyle
9. Hellstrom
10. Beast
11. Silver Surfer
12. Moondragon
13. Iceman
14. Angel