George R.R. Martin's A DANCE WITH DRAGONS - Spoiled Discussion

[Gary_B]

I'm only on page 200. Normally I don't worry too much about reading spoilers so I had peek at this thread. OOOPS!! I can't read this thread 'til I've finished the book.

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1) The sorcerer that Bran encounters is probably Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven, a Targaryean bastard who served as Hand of the King over a century ago and later became Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. He had one eye and was reputed to be a sorcerer.

Good catch.

There were a lot of links to that era, between Barristan's recollections and Griff's musings on the history of the Golden Company.

[Jared H.]

I'm curious why Brynden is so feared in the fire dreams(where that one priest whose name i cannot recall associated him with the Others).

Could Bran be getting set up to be a villain?

[immortality]

I just finished reading the book, overall its similar to Feast of Crows, nothing really super amazing happens as in terms of plot movements happen. Dany is still a little horny girl that keeps saying "she is an innocent girl," which is probably why she keeps doing stupid things. I hope Mormont finally comes back from being a sellsword and somehow saves the queen, I want to see Darrio versus Mormont.

I don't think Martin will kill of Jon Snow, there is no one left to rule the wall, the red priest will may save similar to how the red priest saved Catelyn Stark.

I hope Martin is able to finally gather all his characters and give most of them closure in his last two books. Especially Arya and Bran as they haven't even gotten into the fray of the Game of Thrones. It is interesting to see that everyone thinks all the starks all dead but really only Robb Stark is dead.

The one thing I really hope for is Dany to stop being a flake and realize she cannot make a utopia.

If anything it was nice to know, that the major players seem to finally acknowledge Dany and her dragon's existence.

[Matthew E]

It's speculated that Ramsay had Theon castrated.

I think it's more than just speculation; there were a couple of passages where they almost come right out and say it. And I think that what Ramsay did was a lot more thorough and comprehensive than just castration, if you take my meaning.

[Gordon Smith]

He only gets one more scene later on, but it's a doozy.

Yeah, that last bit with Varys was a doozy. A very chilling scene. And despite myself, I felt a small twinge of sympathy for the other character in the scene. Just a small twinge however.

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I felt a small twinge of sympathy for the other character in the scene. Just a small twinge however.

Kevan, yes. Pycelle, not so much.

[Valmore]

3) It's speculated that Ramsay had Theon castrated, hence his poor reaction to Abel's handmaidens and fears of being seen naked.

I don't even think it's even that much speculation - He thinks to himself how Ramsay removed some fingers, toes, skin and that "other thing" during the chapter where he manages to remove the ironborn from Moat Cailin. I'm pretty certain that "other thing" was his penis.

[moebius]

Some thoughts on ADWD:

1. Much better than AFFC, which was ponderous and dealt with less interesting characters. ADWD had maybe one "Holy Shit!" moment every hundred pages, and I can't remember a single one from AFFC (all of the other books also had those moments, like the Red Wedding or Renly's assassination).

However, I do wish Martin would have cut down on some of the annoying character tics and moved the plot along. Do we need to know every time we see Tyrion (and we see him a lot) that he killed his father with a crossbow? Do we need to constantly hear about Dany's three betrayals? Given that we started with Meereen threatened, and we ended there, I was disappointed by Martin's pacing and his inability to relieve the siege of Meereen (through an attach by Selmy, the Ironmen, and Tyrion turning the sellswords) by the end of the book. He's got two books to resolve the Iron Throne and the others, and I hope he spends his time on those things, not Dany pining for Daario.

2. What happened to Jon Stark shook me when I finished the book, but thinking back on it he's almost certainly Azor Ahai and this death won't stick, as a death is necessary 1) for the prophecy, 2) to get him out of his Night's Watch vows (which end with the end of his days). I wonder what sort of Jon Snow will come back to us, or how he'll make Lightbringer.

3. Bran is how we're going to learn of Jon Snow's parentage. It was foreshadowed here that Bran can see through time, as well as space, so he's now privy to conversations with dead characters.

4. Barristan Selmy is a complete badass. "This coward is about to kill you, ser." and "Break the truce? I mean to shatter it" are fantastic lines.

5. My girlfriend noted that all of the Stark women (Catelyn, Sansa, Arya, of which we see only one) are now living under new names.

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... or how he'll make Lightbringer.

I've been assuming it'll have something to do with either Widow's Wail or Oathkeeper. There has to be some significance to the scene where the blacksmith talks about how he was unable to get the right color red in the steel.

[Valmore]

Some thoughts on ADWD:

1. Much better than AFFC, which was ponderous and dealt with less interesting characters. ADWD had maybe one "Holy Shit!" moment every hundred pages, and I can't remember a single one from AFFC (all of the other books also had those moments, like the Red Wedding or Renly's assassination).

However, I do wish Martin would have cut down on some of the annoying character tics and moved the plot along. Do we need to know every time we see Tyrion (and we see him a lot) that he killed his father with a crossbow? Do we need to constantly hear about Dany's three betrayals? Given that we started with Meereen threatened, and we ended there, I was disappointed by Martin's pacing and his inability to relieve the siege of Meereen (through an attach by Selmy, the Ironmen, and Tyrion turning the sellswords) by the end of the book. He's got two books to resolve the Iron Throne and the others, and I hope he spends his time on those things, not Dany pining for Daario.

2. What happened to Jon Stark shook me when I finished the book, but thinking back on it he's almost certainly Azor Ahai and this death won't stick, as a death is necessary 1) for the prophecy, 2) to get him out of his Night's Watch vows (which end with the end of his days). I wonder what sort of Jon Snow will come back to us, or how he'll make Lightbringer.

3. Bran is how we're going to learn of Jon Snow's parentage. It was foreshadowed here that Bran can see through time, as well as space, so he's now privy to conversations with dead characters.

4. Barristan Selmy is a complete badass. "This coward is about to kill you, ser." and "Break the truce? I mean to shatter it" are fantastic lines.

5. My girlfriend noted that all of the Stark women (Catelyn, Sansa, Arya, of which we see only one) are now living under new names.

I didn't really see a "Holy Shit" moment in the Red Wedding - Martin was pretty clearly foreshadowing the betrayal of Roose Bolton throughout ASOS and through small things the Freys were doing leading up to the event.

Though in this book Martin certainly seems to feel the need to tell us when Tyrion is done pissing. As well as killing his father.

Howland Reed of Greywater Watch may know of Jon Snow's parentage, since he was the only surviving knight with Eddard Stark at the end of the seige of the Tower of Joy where Lyanna was being held. If we learn of Snow's parentage, it could be through him. Bran is running around with his kids, after all.

[Inkthinker]

I think you're right, Bran is going to be used to reveal a lot of secrets through his ability to see through the trees. I expect that at some point, he'll also learn to speak properly through the ravens, as foreshadowed by Mormont's raven suddenly using Jon's full name (almost certainly an attempt by Bran to communicate). I suspect he may never leave the weirwood throne, though, any more than Brynden. Sad, I guess, but in some ways he'll end up more powerful than any of them, even Dany.

Ain't no way Jon is properly dead. Four stab wounds is something Melisandre can cure through R'hllor, and I don't even think she'll have to make him undead-ish like Catelyn or Dondarrion (though maybe so, I don't know... might make his character interesting, since he's gone to such trouble to fight the undead Others, and now he might sort of be undead himself).

I do expect that the shit seriously hit the fan moments after that moment, considering that Jon had just essentially convinced a ton of the wildlings and many Black Brothers to follow him to Winterfell... they Ceasared him precisely because he was becoming too popular, and they couldn't stand it/feared it.

I liked Tyrion's chapters best, but yeah... I was about tired of crossbow references, he's about one step short of tugging his braid. Still, at least Tyrion's plot moved, there were actually rises and falls and maybe even a teensy bit of character growth. Which is more than I could say for most of the others.

Not sure how I feel about the sudden appearance of Aegon, it does distinctly feel like a rabbit got pulled out of someone's ass there. I like Jon Connington though... and am I right in thinking that he didn't catch greyscale until he pulled Tyrion from the water? Interesting that he got it, but Tyrion (apparently) did not.

Needed more Arya.

Poor, poor Quentyn...

[worstblogever]

If I had a criticism of this book or series, it might be the overwhelming number of "death swerves".

spoilers:

1. Aegon having died as an infant, until he didn't with some revealed help by Jon Connington. 2. Jon Snow dodging death via Ghost. 3. Mance Rayder via magical illusion by Melisandre. 4. Theon Greyjoy not buying the farm last book. 5. Davos the Onion Knight with some help from Lord Wyman. 6. Bran and Rickon via the swap-out by Theon Greyjoy after they escaped. 7. There's a brief mention of Cleon's corpse being sent out into battle tied to his stallion to fool the enemy. 8. There's a callback to when someone dressed in Renly's armor to take the field. 9. Mance's kid gets swapped out, too, before it can be killed by Jon Snow. 10. Both Stark girls have gone missing, and Arya's been presumed dead and replaced by an imposter.

end of spoilers


I have to wonder, does anyone in Westeros ever request to see the body? I know they don't have DNA testing, but damn.

[Sheldon]

Well Dorne wanted the Mountains head....but yeah...

[Valmore]

Not sure how I feel about the sudden appearance of Aegon, it does distinctly feel like a rabbit got pulled out of someone's ass there. I like Jon Connington though... and am I right in thinking that he didn't catch greyscale until he pulled Tyrion from the water? Interesting that he got it, but Tyrion (apparently) did not.

That would be my guess, but I suppose it's hard to say since we know so little of what has happened with Connington up until this book as well as the complete details of greyscale. It may be that it's a very slow wasting disease, especially in a healthy person (which was why he was figuring he had a few years to seat Aegon). I'd have to go back and re-read, but wasn't Connington dressing up weirdly even when Tyrion first met him? I'm not sure.