George R.R. Martin's A DANCE WITH DRAGONS - Spoiled Discussion

[Omega Alpha]

The sackings of Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen ("Dracarys"); Drogon's grand entrance at the fighting pits; Viserion and Rhaegal laying waste to the Meereenese pyramids; those might cause some concerns later especially as the dragons grow larger.

They could be, but Blackwater is still bigger than all of them, I think.

The real concern should be actors wages. The kids not so much, but if Kit Harrington or Emilia Clarke get some big movie roles in the meantime...

[Roquefort Raider]

Re-reading A clash of kings, I came upon this paragraph whose significance had eluded me the first time around. it's one of the visions Daenerys has in the Undying ones' house.

Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother's hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were dark indigo rather than lilac. "Aegon", he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. "What better name for a king?"
."Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked.
"He has a song", the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire."
He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more", he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads". He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filles the room as man, woman and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

That really sounds as if it is Rhaegar's son.

[Nienna]

He did have a son - Aegon, who had his head bashed against the wall by the Mountain. According to The Citadel, Martin has confirmed that this is Rhaegar, Elia and baby Aegon that Dany is seeing here.

[Roquefort Raider]

You're right, of course, Nienna... Somehow I keep mis-remembering baby Aegon as being Daenerys's brother and not her nephew. Thanks for confirming that Martin himself identified the kid in that scene!

[Titan76]

The sackings of Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen ("Dracarys");

The only thing we need to see during the sack of Astapor, is Dracarys. Dany tells her unsullied to sack the city and then her POV ends. We also never witness Yunkai and Meereen being sack, since in Yunkai, Dany is in her tent until the city has been taken, and we are only told how Meereen is taken, as it happened off panel.

Drogon's grand entrance at the fighting pits;

God, I can't wait for this one. I don't see how this will be a problem. I can see it lasting at the most, 10 minutes.

Viserion and Rhaegal laying waste to the Meereenese pyramids;

All of which happen, off panel. All we need is the post visual part.

those might cause some concerns later especially as the dragons grow larger.

The Battle of Slaver's Bay, which was suppose to be in ADWD but GRRM later took it out, is going to be of some concerns. As I see this being close to the Battle of Blackwater Bay.

[Winslow]

I keep wondering who Coldhands is. Apparently it's possible to redeem the zombies created by the Others. I keep wondering if we'll be filled in by that story or if that's one of those things that will be left to mystery.

[Blueferret]

I keep wondering who Coldhands is. Apparently it's possible to redeem the zombies created by the Others. I keep wondering if we'll be filled in by that story or if that's one of those things that will be left to mystery.

I think the most popular theory is that it's Benjen Stark. Could be someone else, but if it is Im curious how he got that way.

[FanboyStranger]

I think the most popular theory is that it's Benjen Stark. Could be someone else, but if it is Im curious how he got that way.

If it is Stark, I'd go with something in the Stark family's makeup/destiny made him slip the control with the aid of the Children of the Forest. You look at all the kids and you see that they're all wargs and skinchangers on some level, but only Sansa wasn't able to shift her consciouseness because Lady was taken out early. Bran, obviously, is the best at it, but ShaggyDog would mimic Rickon's feelings, Jon and Arya had shared "dreams" with Ghost and Nymeria, and Robb felt himself slipping into Grey Wind as late as the Red Wedding. I think it's that the Starks are the chosen champion of the Old Gods of the North, and they possess gifts that facilitate that. We don't really know what Ned or Benjen may have felt in regards to that, but I do think it's significant that Benjen took the Black when he could have had an easy life as the lord of a keep somewhere.

[Expletive Deleted]

My theory is that taking the Night's Watch oath before the Old Gods rather than the Seven is somehow important. Martin made a point of mentioning that Benjen had taken his oath at a Heart Tree.

[Vibranium]

My theory is that taking the Night's Watch oath before the Old Gods rather than the Seven is somehow important. Martin made a point of mentioning that Benjen had taken his oath at a Heart Tree.

the Northmen don't worship the Seven, they worship the old gods....if a Southron takes the black, he would say his vows at a Sept

[FanboyStranger]

the Northmen don't worship the Seven, they worship the old gods....if a Southron takes the black, he would say his vows at a Sept

I think that's ED's point: that taking the oath before the Heart Tree connects the Crow to the Old Gods, and since the Old Gods still "reign" north of the Wall, Benjen, if he is actually Coldhands, was given their patronage when he became a wight, thereby negating the hold that the Others would have on him. It's definitely a cool theory, and I think it can go along with my own personal theory that the Stark lineage have some destiny regarding the coming winter, probably going back to Bran the Builder.

The whole issue of the gods and what kind of power they have in ASoIaF is really interesting to me. Martin keeps the religion stuff intentionally vague for the most part, but we do know that Red Priests can resurrect the dead, the Stranger is the patron of the Faceless Men, who clearly have magical abilities, etc. I look at something like Theon's character arc in ADwD and draw parallels with the more severe "baptisms" of the Drowned God-- the person is actually drowned/dead, then resusitated back to life as one of the Drowned God's faithful as Theon was symbolically dead as Reek then reborn as Theon in Winterfell regaining his courage in the process. It's neat stuff to speculate about.

[Expletive Deleted]

I think that's ED's point: that taking the oath before the Heart Tree connects the Crow to the Old Gods, and since the Old Gods still "reign" north of the Wall, Benjen, if he is actually Coldhands, was given their patronage when he became a wight, thereby negating the hold that the Others would have on him.

Yep, that's the general idea.

Although I go back and forth on whether or not the Seven have any power anywhere, North or South. The Stranger seems to be "real," but the rest . . .

[Winslow]

If it is Stark, I'd go with something in the Stark family's makeup/destiny made him slip the control with the aid of the Children of the Forest. You look at all the kids and you see that they're all wargs and skinchangers on some level, but only Sansa wasn't able to shift her consciouseness because Lady was taken out early. Bran, obviously, is the best at it, but ShaggyDog would mimic Rickon's feelings, Jon and Arya had shared "dreams" with Ghost and Nymeria, and Robb felt himself slipping into Grey Wind as late as the Red Wedding. I think it's that the Starks are the chosen champion of the Old Gods of the North, and they possess gifts that facilitate that. We don't really know what Ned or Benjen may have felt in regards to that, but I do think it's significant that Benjen took the Black when he could have had an easy life as the lord of a keep somewhere.

That's cool. Thanks for responding. That malkes a lot of sense and is consistent with the world

I need to come up with some more question. I enjoyed the responses to this one.

[the_coldest_sun]

The only thing we need to see during the sack of Astapor, is Dracarys. Dany tells her unsullied to sack the city and then her POV ends. We also never witness Yunkai and Meereen being sack, since in Yunkai, Dany is in her tent until the city has been taken, and we are only told how Meereen is taken, as it happened off panel.

God, I can't wait for this one. I don't see how this will be a problem. I can see it lasting at the most, 10 minutes.

All of which happen, off panel. All we need is the post visual part.

The Battle of Slaver's Bay, which was suppose to be in ADWD but GRRM later took it out, is going to be of some concerns. As I see this being close to the Battle of Blackwater Bay.

True, true. I forgot which happened off-panel and what we actually witnessed. I guess my own want of seeing those things happen onscreen got the best of me. I agree, the Battle for Meereen and the Battle for Winterfell are going to be just as important as the Battle of Blackwater Bay. Can't wait to finally read those. I think that was my biggest disappointment with ADwD, that it ramped up to those events only to find out they've been pushed back to TWoW. Although, I still greatly enjoyed reading it.

[Superbeast]

a show like this isn't cheap to produce...so if HBO does can it, it will be due to budget issues, I think

They have already had budget issues. They cut a planned battle from season 1 by only showing the aftermath when Tyrion woke up, they cut a battle scene from this episode and they had to ask for a bit more money to do the Battle of Blackwater in episodes 8 and 9 justice without the wildfire looking like cheap CGI and so they had enough extras.

Anyone got any ideas/hopes as to the eventual status quo? Jon Snow as King in The North wed to Daenerys with Aegon on The Iron Throne wed to Arya, Gendry as Kingsguard, Tyrion as the Hand and Lord of Casterly Rock and Jamie sent to the Wall seems possible to me. Aegon and Dany marrying seems less likely to me at this point. Sansa and Littlefinger is just plain weird to me. I don't see things ending well for Stannis, Roose Bolton or the Greyjoy line either.