George R.R. Martin's A DANCE WITH DRAGONS - Spoiled Discussion

[Sheldon]

I wonder if Marwyn knows an effective treatment for the flux..

I wonder if Danys remembers that Marwyn trained Mirri Maz Duur.

[Valmore]

Yeah, I suppose Dany dying of the flux would seem rather anticlimactic and I wouldn't bet money on her dying that way. So I guess it just becomes a question of if a cure exists or if someone can let it run its course and survive. Maybe it's because I've never been much of a fan of her chapters, and this book did little to persuade me otherwise, but I wouldn't miss her if she died. Maybe she'll be more interesting to me if she actually goes to Westeros in the next book or so. I know Martin was trying to go with the inner conflict of wanting one person and having to go with another for the supposed better good, but it just really came off as too close to a teen drama and felt out of place, considering the conflicts so many other teens and younger have had to endure.

And I'm really looking forward to the next few Davos chapters. Mainly because we haven't seen ANYTHING about how Rickon Stark and his escort have been doing since "A Clash of Kings." Which is honestly a little annoying.

[worstblogever]

I wonder if Marwyn knows an effective treatment for the flux..

Yeah, I suppose Dany dying of the flux would seem rather anticlimactic and I wouldn't bet money on her dying that way. So I guess it just becomes a question of if a cure exists or if someone can let it run its course and survive. Maybe it's because I've never been much of a fan of her chapters, and this book did little to persuade me otherwise, but I wouldn't miss her if she died. Maybe she'll be more interesting to me if she actually goes to Westeros in the next book or so. I know Martin was trying to go with the inner conflict of wanting one person and having to go with another for the supposed better good, but it just really came off as too close to a teen drama and felt out of place, considering the conflicts so many other teens and younger have had to endure.

All this discussion of the bloody flux made me wonder why more female characters in sagas don't die of aggressive dysentery. It's the perfect end for Bella from Twilight, I think.

And I'm really looking forward to the next few Davos chapters. Mainly because we haven't seen ANYTHING about how Rickon Stark and his escort have been doing since "A Clash of Kings." Which is honestly a little annoying.

Agreed on that. When you read the family lineage appendices in the back of the book, a lot of familiar old names go by. And seeing Rickon's name, and his ward's made me wonder...

Of course, so does the fact that there are Lannisters like Gerion listed as "Lost at Sea", especially with the tendency for "death swerves".

But the characters other than Rickon I wanted some appearance of (rather than brief mention of, at least), were Sandor Clegane, Beric Dondarrion, and Lady Catelyn. Hell, even some Littlefinger/Sansa update couldn't have hurt.

[moebius]

But the characters other than Rickon I wanted some appearance of (rather than brief mention of, at least), were Sandor Clegane, Beric Dondarrion, and Lady Catelyn. Hell, even some Littlefinger/Sansa update couldn't have hurt.

Beric gave the revenant "kiss of life" to Stoneheart at the end of book three, and he passed on as a result.

[moebius]

Here's another thought:

It's likely that Jaime is the one to kill Cersei at the end of the series (the "little brother"). That probably means that Brienne is going to help him defeat Stoneheart (since Jaime has become more honorable than Catelyn).

[Jack]

And Sandor is either genuinely dead or leading a life of penance.

It might be an unpopular opinion but personally I really enjoyed Sansa's chapters in Feast. She's growing into an interesting person. Or at least growing out of her old brattiness.

[worstblogever]

Beric gave the revenant "kiss of life" to Stoneheart at the end of book three, and he passed on as a result.

For whatever reason, it didn't register for me that Beric did that at the cost of his own extended life... huh. It's more like passing on a curse, given the current way of things.

Looking up the Game of Thrones Wiki... he sure did get around. His seven (yes, seven) deaths:

* Impaled by a Lance by Gregor Clegane.
* Smashed with a mace on the side of the head by the Knight Burton Crakehall.
* Hanged at Rushing falls by Amory Lorch.
* Stabbed in the eye by a dirk by Gregor Clegane.
* Killed by an archer of the Brave Companions sellsword company.
* Killed by Sandor Clegane in a trial by combat.
* Gave up his lifeforce to resurrect Catelyn Tully.

In other news, I have decided I like Septa Lemore for being a naughty nun whose name I sound out like it's meant to be "L'Amuor"

And I had a thought about Jon Snow getting "Caesared" by the Night's Watch... we know experience Skinchangers can possess people, right? Borroq seemed to not be thrilled about another skinchanger being at the Wall when he got there... did he somehow take control of Bowen Marsh to force his hand, and are the tears he's shedding the real Bowen, inside, weeping at having to attack his brother, which is against his code? Or, y'know, is it him legitimately grieving breaking the Watch code to do what he thinks is best for it, going forward?

Just a possibility I considered...

[Inkthinker]

I think Marsh weeps for having come to this point, not because he's possessed... he genuinely feels that Snow has betrayed The Night's Watch. Especially since, at the last, he technically has. Jon's been going on the whole time about how the Watch is neutral, they take no part, but now that it's personal enough he's willing to drag half the Watch to Winterfell? Unacceptable. Hence, the Ides of March action.

But you might be right about the skinchanging ability being key to his survival... he can reside in Ghost until his body is restored. Maybe he'll stop fighting his ability to be a warg.

I expected (and still expect) Sandor to pop up in the newly formed militant arm of the Church. His arc will end with either Arya or FrankenGregor (or both), and whether or not he survives it is entirely up in the air.

[cactusmaac]

I don't think Sandor would be very interested in going on a crusade. He's more likely to tell them to bugger themselves with the seven-pointed star. He's done with a life of violence.

I wonder where Alys Karstark fits into things. Her appearance seemed a bit random.

[Valmore]

I wonder where Alys Karstark fits into things. Her appearance seemed a bit random.

Her remaining brother Harrion was amongst those sent by Roose Bolton to Duskendale before the Red Wedding in order to weaken Robb Stark's forces, as there was nothing in Duskendale and Stark never ordered that attack. Harrion remains MIA. The other two brothers were slain by Jamie Lannister in the Whispering Woods, which in turn led to Rickard Karstark murdering Robb's Lannister and Frey hostages and lose his head to Stark.

Arnolf Karstark is Rickard's brother and was left as castellan. With Harrion missing that leaves Alys as the heir to Karhold. Arnolf was trying to force her to marry his son Cregan so that they would take over as Lords of Karhold. Apparently she didn't like that match, possibly because of her knowledge of Arnolf's treachery and allegiance to Roose Bolton. So she fled. She knew Jon Snow was at the Wall and thought he might possibly be in a better position to protect her.

Basically, she serves as a way to let Jon Snow know that Karhold isn't behind Stannis and sets off other plans of helping him, particularly sending the Braavosi banker to Stannis before whatever battle takes place (if it indeed ever did).

[Winslow]

...

However, I do wish Martin would have cut down on some of the annoying character tics and moved the plot along. ....

I share your perspective and opinion regarding the plot of the book (and actually the whole series). I have a love-hate thing going on with the series and that is the one thing I hate.

But I have beat that dead horse enough on the forums, and simply intend to give you a nod and let you know I agree.

[Winslow]

The Dany chapters were disappointing. One of Martin's strengths is his characterization and believable psychology of his characters. Dany's character development confused me (it was either backwards or inconsistent ... and maybe that was the point), and her lust for a "bad boy" made me groan. She despised the men in her court that were ruthless but overlooked it in Daario? In addition, the intrigue during those chapters wasn't very intriguing and not true to form, were rather obvious and predictable.

The Aegon reveal threw me, but I agree that he's the real deal. Especially with the Varys epilogue at the end and the Connington POV chapters.

I agree with the critique regarding the poor pace of the Tyrion POV chapters, at the same time I always get a laugh at his japes. So I enjoyed those chapters.

Jon's POV chapters were fantastic. While it remains to be seen whether Jon is Azor Ahai, I would like to say that I 'called that" in the other thread. I should get uber nerd points for that.

The Arya chapters were also great. I am looking forward to seeing what role she plays. The part where she's blind and wacks her mentor on the hand and knows he is the one striking her was a priceless scene that made me laugh. BTW, I was cinfused how she made her first assassination. Can anyone help me out with my reading comprehension on that one?

I was glad Martin threw a bone to the long time fans and revealed Ashara Dayne is NOT Jon's father. I also liked how he linked the rumor of that to Ned, since the two were lovers.

[Winslow]

I'm curious why Brynden is so feared in the fire dreams(where that one priest whose name i cannot recall associated him with the Others).

Could Bran be getting set up to be a villain?

I have to go back and read the fire dreams, because I don't recall that.

The Bran chapters were great. They were full of myth and imagery. And at one point Brynden tells him not to fear the dark ... which is a stark (heh) contrast to the red priests that fear the dark.

At this point, I am more inclined to believe the red priests are the wayward ones whereas Brynden is a true enemy of the Others. There is also the imagery of a tree ... trees often represent life in myth. Fire often represents death. At least in Christian myth and tradition.

[Valmore]

The Arya chapters were also great. I am looking forward to seeing what role she plays. The part where she's blind and wacks her mentor on the hand and knows he is the one striking her was a priceless scene that made me laugh. BTW, I was confused how she made her first assassination. Can anyone help me out with my reading comprehension on that one?

Arya is supposed to kill the ship insurance man, however, he's too wary and well-protected to kill in-person. She had to find a workaround.

So, she waits for a man who is going to pay that ship insurer. She slashes his purse, taking some of the coins, but slipping in an iron coin of Braavos, possibly rusted, or most likely poisoned. Remember, the ship insurer takes the coins himself, but he doesn't look at them - he bites them in his mouth. So the man who went to the insurer paid him and that coin she slipped in was one of them. The ship insurer tasted it, and that taste ended up killing him.

[moebius]

I was glad Martin threw a bone to the long time fans and revealed Ashara Dayne is NOT Jon's father. I also liked how he linked the rumor of that to Ned, since the two were lovers.

Our word on this comes from Selmy, who might not have known the truth of it (it's unlikely he did more than love Ashara from afar). One of the persistent rumors in Westeros is that Ned Stark had a child/affair with Ashara Dayne, and she killed herself when he slew her brother Arthur.

However: unreliable narrator. The whole Jon Snow story rests on all the rumors of who Ned got pregnant. Given all we know of Ned, it's VERY unlikely that he would break his vow of marriage. But Selmy doesn't have that knowledge (we probably will with time). So you have to look at his POV with skepticism.